Thorn Song confusion furthers Zayat intrigue

[prudery]

Originally Posted by philcski

Ummm, while your analysis is (relatively) correct, you are trying to school someone who actually does this for a living...

Not trying to school anyone Phil--see above--that is what the check for Thorn Song said ....

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by prudery

No I am not confused NOR do I not comprehend that it does logically seem impossible to pay a mortality check on a live horse ...

BUT--I viewed the actual check as per KY.com and it does indeed say MORTALITY claim on Thorn Song ( less deduction ) ...

So THEY called it as such, paid out as such, and though I am not in the biz, I assume that is how they did it considering that the horse was a total ...

And they knew the horse was not dead---see for yourself ...

When I said check in my original post, I meant THAT particular check--not all mortality checks of course ..

I do ubnderstand LOU, and I do understand what mortality means ..

That would not happen with my company, We dont pay mortality on horses that are alive. We must see a necropsy. Euthanasia must been recommended by a Company Approved Vet, etc. We also dont offer LOU on race horses.

maybe the check was written as mortality and wasnt paid as mortality. Also, why is Zayats check posted on a website?? that makes no sense and I dont think I'd believe it even if I saw it.. I just went to ky.com and it was for KY Jelly.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

well whoever paid a mortality check on an alive horse should be fired.

That would not happen with my company, and it could be the reason we are the biggest in the world. We dont pay mortality on horses that are alive. We must see a necropsy. Euthanasia must been recommended by a Company Approved Vet, etc. We also dont offer LOU on race horses.

Seems like whoever paid this check are idiots or the check was written as mortality and wasnt paid as mortality. Also, why is Zayats check posted on a website?? that makes no sense and I dont think I'd believe it even if I saw it.. I just went to ky.com and it was for KY Jelly.

Ky Jelly---that is hilarious ...

The website I put up is wrong--I will get you the link so you can see ...

It also says " final payment " on it ...

You may not know me, but I am adverse to putting up shiat, and here you get drilled --and maybe rightly so--for posting what may not evcen be shiat--so I wasn't talking out of the wrong end ...

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by prudery

Ky Jelly---that is hilarious ...

The website I put up is wrong--I will get you the link so you can see ...

It also says " final payment " on it ...

You may not know me, but I am adverse to putting up shiat, and here you get drilled --and maybe rightly so--for posting what may not evcen be shiat--so I wasn't talking out of the wrong end ...

I found the check you dont have to post it and you are right it does say mortality. I really have no idea why the check is on a website though.

And you were not posting shiat.. If companies want to pay out mortality claims on horses that are alive.. more power to them!

[Theatrical]

Copy of insurance check:

http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/201...filiate.79.pdf

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I found the check you dont have to post it and you are right it does say mortality. I really have no idea why the check is on a website though.

And you were not posting shiat.. If our competitors want to pay out mortality claims on horses that are alive.. more power to them! because they wont be in business very long!

The check is on that website because the reporter that started the ball rolling apparently continued to do so--it is pretty weird ...

BTW---I had a friend who lost a horse to colic and there was a mortality claim paid out on a deceased animal WITHOUT a necropsy---it may be rare but it does happen ...

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by prudery

The check is on that website because the reporter that started the ball rolling apparently continued to do so--it is pretty weird ...

BTW---I had a friend who lost a horse to colic and there was a mortality claim paid out on a deceased animal WITHOUT a necropsy---it may be rare but it does happen ...

check your PM box..

I just talked with my boss and I'll put a foot in my mouth and prudery is correct about the Thorn Song situation. I guess we've paid out wobbler claims under the mortality part and kept the horse alive.

She told me a hypothetical Barbaro situation where you could pay out a mortality claim on a live horse..

when Barbaro was too bad to survive his laminitis and euthenasia is recommended by the vet.. we would pay the mortality claim. but if someone involved in the situation then wanted to try to remove a bad leg and add a prostetic (sp?) leg to try to save the horse, the mortality claim would have still been paid but the horse would still be alive. Basically unconventional treatment after the horse was bad enough to be destroyed. I assume the reason I've never seen or heard of this are that most owners dont have an unlimited supply of money to put into saving their horses life above and beyond normal treatment.

I guess you learn something new every day! I've never seen a situation like that and the claims adjuster I asked also didnt think it was possible but my boss set me straight.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

check your PM box..

I just talked with my boss and I'll put a foot in my mouth and prudery is correct about the Thorn Song situation. I guess we've paid out wobbler claims under the mortality part and kept the horse alive.

She told me a hypothetical Barbaro situation where you could pay out a mortality claim on a live horse..

when Barbaro was too bad to survive his laminitis and euthenasia is recommended by the vet.. we would pay the mortality claim. but if someone involved in the situation then wanted to try to remove a bad leg and add a prostetic (sp?) leg to try to save the horse, the mortality claim would have still been paid but the horse would still be alive. Basically unconventional treatment after the horse was bad enough to be destroyed. I assume the reason I've never seen or heard of this are that most owners dont have an unlimited supply of money to put into saving their horses life above and beyond normal treatment.

I guess you learn something new every day! I've never seen a situation like that and the claims adjuster I asked also didnt think it was possible but my boss set me straight.

Thanks for looking into this and reporting back ...

Weird things happen in weird situations and this was one ...

Recall a few other mortality claims paid off on live animals, but since I couldn't document but the colic one, I didn't ...

Am I qualified to teach Insurance 101 now--just joking ..

[dagolfer33]

.....I was going to theorize that someone at the insurance company might have gotten a kickback but apparently yall have it figured out. This was a weird situation.

[Sightseek]

Follow-up on Thorn Song:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...chance-at-life

[Danzig]

amazing and great to hear!! a step in the right direction in hopefully combatting a vicious disease.


from the article:

Though the insurance claim was paid off, as a “last ditch effort” rather than euthanize Thorn Song, Herthel decided to try stem cell therapy, a groundbreaking procedure in which bone marrow is used to help regenerate tissue. Alamo Pintado was the first private equine practice in the United States to open an onsite stem cell laboratory and has used the procedure to successfully treat hundreds of horses with joint, tendon, and ligament injuries. However, Herthel said they have performed stem cell therapy on only a handful of horses with lamintis.
“I thought there would still be a less than 10% chance for him even if we tried stem cell,” said Herthel. “But within 48 hours we saw a turnaround. There was a dramatic decrease in pain and swelling, and within two weeks we started seeing amazing hoof growth. We were blown away.
“It went beyond our expectations. It may be the most exciting thing I have ever seen. Technology is moving forward.”
Herthel said that Thorn Song, who is now owned by North American Specialty, is “not out of the woods yet,” but at this point is comfortable and his hoof continues to grow. He said Thorn Song’s quality of life is currently excellent and expects to have the horse at Alamo Pintado for a couple more months. He estimated that there is a 70% chance of Thorn Song becoming a stallion.

[prudery]

I sincerely hope this guy pulls through and his success story brings hope and recovery to horses thought to be without a chance as well ...

[Scav]

Stem cell helping lamintis is a very very big deal

[Patrick333]

That's great news.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Scav

Stem cell helping lamintis is a very very big deal

yes, it is. glad to see they are finding better ways to combat the illness. an awful amount of pain and suffering for stricken horses.

[Kasept]

That's great. Who doesn't like (potentially) happy endings?





Oh.. And by the way... just wondering... Anyone have any suggestions how Ahmed Zayat should go about getting un-villified now that journalists actually filled in the blanks on this oddball incident?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's great. Who doesn't like (potentially) happy endings?





Oh.. And by the way... just wondering... Anyone have any suggestions how Ahmed Zayat should go about getting un-villified now that journalists actually filled in the blanks on this oddball incident?

Do you believe the Banks position is still valid?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Do you believe the Banks position is still valid?

i don't know that it is, or ever has been valid. just because they file these suits doesn't mean they have a legal leg to stand on. they may think by being overly aggressive they can muscle their way through to get what they want. there's a ways to go before anything is proven either way. he said he declared to stop the bank-that certainly appears to be a legal step he could take in response to what they've done. whether people like how he names his horses or not, it doesn't mean the guy is broke or pulled shady deals.

[Sightseek]

Fifth Third wants out of the equine lending business - end of story.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know that it is, or ever has been valid. just because they file these suits doesn't mean they have a legal leg to stand on. they may think by being overly aggressive they can muscle their way through to get what they want. there's a ways to go before anything is proven either way. he said he declared to stop the bank-that certainly appears to be a legal step he could take in response to what they've done. whether people like how he names his horses or not, it doesn't mean the guy is broke or pulled shady deals.

I dont know if it is common for folks to collect on a mortality claim on a live horse and since that horse is colateral and or its worth if dead if it is proper for the Stable to keep proceeds? I really have know clue