The 3yo's are finally starting to look less horrible

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Eskendereya has already done what Big Brown didn't do until late March.

NT

You're not possibly comparing the two - Eskandereya's FOY to Big Brown's FL Derby, are you? Eskandereya is a Very nice horse, but c'mon, Nick.

If Eskandereya closes from the far outside going away in the FL Derby and I recant my sentiment.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Ogygian

When was the last time there was a "good" group of 3 year olds at this point on the Derby Trail? I swear it seems every year the "crop" is "horrible". Whether it is someone posting on here or someone talking on the show it seems like at this point the crop is "weak", "horrible", "slow" and the worst ever.

Agreed. Every year. I'm not particularly excited about this year's preps or many/any of the horses who have participated yet, but that's not a yearly ritual for me.

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Curlin, etc... 2007 was a great year and I recall that most were very high on the crop this time of year.

This crop is horrid. We need a Big Brown to come out of the clouds to salvage this year thus far.

Not Drugs

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Amen to that. I know Mr. Mellon 'deserved' a Derby winner and all, but I may dislike Sea Hero more than any horse evah... And having to look at that statue of him all summer really frosts my pumpkin.

Frost your pumpkin?



oh boy.















THUD!

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

You're not possibly comparing the two - Eskandereya's FOY to Big Brown's FL Derby, are you? Eskandereya is a Very nice horse, but c'mon, Nick.

If Eskandereya closes from the far outside going away in the FL Derby and I recant my sentiment.

I guess I thought so little of every horse from the 2008 Fla Derby that the effort never struck me as all that great, especially considering he did clear the field even from the outside post.

Eskendereya's FOY was the best performance by any horse from this crop going 2 turns by such a distance that I think it sort of starts to give the 3YOs a modicum of credibility.

NT

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This Chinese Lady knows maybe 5 English words, but I trust her to represent my point of view (towards you) just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rm4SazjKsQ&NR=1

That is interesting that you chose someone to represent your point of view that has about the same command of the English language as you.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

1993.

1993 was putrid.

The Cat Thief year was worse.

If you take out Afleet Alex from his crop, that might have been possibly worse yet.

[Indian Charlie]

It's now way to hard to judge a crop this early because of the situation in California. Traditionally, we'd all have some idea who the big horses are going to be coming out of there, but now, we basically have to wait until those horses get shipped to run at a dirt track.

That's a big chunk of horse flesh that's basically been eliminated from consideration.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Ogygian

When was the last time there was a "good" group of 3 year olds at this point on the Derby Trail? I swear it seems every year the "crop" is "horrible".

By the way .... I'm not so sure there hasn't been very good reason for it in a few of these years.

Trivia question ... who is the last winner of a triple crown race to win a 3-year-old Graded Stakes race against males before March 15th?

Hint ...

It's not '09 Belmont winner Summer Bird

It's not '09 Preakness winner Rachel Alexandra

It's not '09 Derby winner Mine That Bird

Hint #2 ...

It's not '08 Belmont winner Da' Tara

It's not '08 Derby and Preakness winner Big Brown

Hint #3 ...

It's not '07 Belmont winner Rags to Riches

It's not '07 Preakness winner Curlin

It's not '07 Derby winner Street Sense

Hint #4 ...

It's not '06 Belmont winner Jazil

It's not '06 Preakness winner Bernardini

It is Barbaro ... who won the Grade 3 Holy Bull by a diminishing three quarters of one length over Great Point ... a horse who recently was running for a 5K claiming tag at Camarero race track in Puerto Rica.

...

No for '05 Belmont winner Birdstone

No for '05 Derby and Preakness winner Smarty Jones.

...

No for '04 Belmont and Preakness winner Afleet Alex

No for '04 Kentucky Derby winner Giacomo

...

No for '03 Belmont winner Empire Maker

No for '03 Preakness and Derby winner Funny Cide

...

No for '02 Belmont winner Sarava

No for '02 Preakness and Derby winner War Emblem

...

No for '01 Preakness and Belmont winner Point Given.


So ... of the last 26 triple crown races ... only one of them was won by a horse who captured a 3yo graded stakes race against males prior to mid March. It was Barbaro in this race ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j9q_9VVhkw

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, Curlin, etc... 2007 was a great year and I recall that most were very high on the crop this time of year.

The horse who came into that years Ky Derby with the highest outright last race Beyer was Curlin .. and it was a 103.

Funny Cide ran a 110 in the Wood and he was 12/1 in the Derby.

War Emblem ran a 112 in his final Derby prep and he was 20/1 in the Derby.

Curlin was a great talent ... but the rest of that crop was just monsterously overrated in my opinion.

Funny Cide would have torched those horses. Smarty Jones would have torched those horses. War Emblem would have torched those horses. Point Given would have killed those horses. Fusaichi Pegasus would have been the best of that group.

Rags to Riches handled them in the only shot she got.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Silver Charm was coming off a 5 month layoff (when he won the 7f San Vicente.) It wasn't the target. It was a prep. S Candy came off a layoff, and prepped in a sprint(poor effort.) Then he sprinted again. This wasn't a prep. This was put up, or shut up. I think they put him in a race of that 7f distance because they thought he preferred it. If they thought he preferred 2 turning, I think they'd of done it. They could not run poorly again. They chose their least point of resistance, and it was one turning against a horse they just lost to. To do that, I really think they trust him sprinting, and def. ain't sure about him 2 turning. If this was his 1st race off the layoff, then I'd be a lot more hopeful about him being a 10f horse. I think they went right to the animal's comfort zone.

i know silver charm was coming off a layoff. i was just pointing out that a derby winner had won the race. i understand your point and i agree with some of it. im not sure how much sidneys candy got out of the return race. he had some trouble at the start and didnt really do a whole lot of running. all of these races are preps. no ones target race is the san vicente.

i just think running in the stake makes more sense if they are seriously going to try and make the derby. he needed graded earnings and he got them. now he can have 2 preps at 2 turns and even if he doesnt win either he will still probably have the earnings to get in if they decide to go that route. with an allowance race they dont have that luxury. essentially they killed 2 birds with one stone. got a solid race into him and they dont have to worry about having the earnings to get in.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Not Drugs

Let the record show that Any Given Slowpoke was not the stupidest pick ever.....

For starters ... he went off at 13/1 odds ... which made him the 3rd longest priced Todd Pletcher trained horse in the race. Scat Daddy was 7/1 and Circular Quay was 11/1.

Also ... Any Given Slowpoke had an absolutely brutal trip in the race. He broke from post #18 and was EXTREMELY wide on both turns over a track that I believe was at least a borderline gold rail... and I think he also got bumped very hard going into the far turn.



That was his form going into his final career start. He and stablemate Lawyer Ron both were beaten a pole in the slop at very short prices. His 4.5 length Haskell win was over both Hard Spun and Curlin.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

That was his form going into his final career start. He and stablemate Lawyer Ron both were beaten a pole in the slop at very short prices. His 4.5 length Haskell win was over both Hard Spun and Curlin.

That was laughable when NYRA moved the Brooklyn to one week before the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

That was laughable when NYRA moved the Brooklyn to one week before the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

He really socked it to Tasteyville in that race.

Cowtown Cat was 19/1 in the 2007 Kentucky Derby. Anyone who thinks the crop was that fearsome going into the Derby needs to let 7/1 on Scat Daddy and 19/1 on Cowtown Cat sink in.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Let the record show that Any Given Slowpoke was not the stupidest pick ever.....

For starters ... he went off at 13/1 odds ... which made him the 3rd longest priced Todd Pletcher trained horse in the race. Scat Daddy was 7/1 and Circular Quay was 11/1.

Also ... Any Given Slowpoke had an absolutely brutal trip in the race. He broke from post #18 and was EXTREMELY wide on both turns over a track that I believe was at least a borderline gold rail... and I think he also got bumped very hard going into the far turn.



That was his form going into his final career start. He and stablemate Lawyer Ron both were beaten a pole in the slop at very short prices. His 4.5 length Haskell win was over both Hard Spun and Curlin.

Yea, I probably could've just quoted you instead of linking to it, since really the only thing about that post that was germane to my reply was this:

That's because I really despise this crop from a talent standpoint.

It didn't really have anything to do with AGS or your pick.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

That is interesting that you chose someone to represent your point of view that has about the same command of the English language as you.

The showmanship is top rate. The "HA" sound at 0:58 is akin to a growl. The f bomb at 1:31 is particularly strong.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Yea, I probably could've just quoted you instead of linking to it, since really the only thing about that post that was germane to my reply was this:

That's because I really despise this crop from a talent standpoint.

It didn't really have anything to do with AGS or your pick.

No problem. You just basically gave me a free pass to go off on how wildly overrated I thought that crop was.

I just hope no one asks about Street Sense's trip that day ... that will probably still get a 14,000,000 word responce from me.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

No problem. You just basically gave me a free pass to go off on how wildly overrated I thought that crop was.

I just hope no one asks about Street Sense's trip that day ... that will probably still get a 14,000,000 word responce from me.

I'll save you time.

He was much the best that day.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Hard Spun?

Yeah ... I realize he set that strong pace and didn't miss by much, but he was also on that live rail. He was obviously plenty best .. but probably not by as gigantic a margin as you think.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Hard Spun?

Yeah ... I realize he set that strong pace and didn't miss by much, but he was also on that live rail. He was obviously plenty best .. but probably not by as gigantic a margin as you think.

I was talking about Street Sense.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I was talking about Street Sense.

All in all - he was probably more impressive in his glorious narrow summer triumphs over C. P. West and Grasshopper.

People forget how much position Curlin lost early on in the Preakness as a much the best winner, as well as how he lost to Rags to Riches next out and was crushed by AGS in the Haskell two starts later and was a troubled but distant 3rd in the Derby before all of this.

They forget how Hard Spun was strangled 4.5 lengths off of the early lead in the Preakness ... and how Hard Spun conclusively finished ahead of Street Sense in their two subsquent meetings after the Preakness.

People forget that Street Sense got another huge pace and dream trip setup in defeat in the Preakness.. the only thing missing that time was a live rail.