Valiant loss puts Zenyatta's prowess in perspective

[slotdirt]

I wonder if Asmussen/Jackson have pangs of regrets about retiring her so soon. She could have easily won that race on Friday based on 2010 form.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

I love your playbook of replies Hossy, I've seen this movie for a year now with your play pals at PA, Shocking, deflection, even stupid for you...ect...you forgot delusional, another of your other favs. If you want to elicit a response, try something fresh man.

2nd to Zardana, Persistantly is not something to brag about when you are Rachel, is it? Her 2nd to UB does make her look abit better today, but let's face, you and I know you were way off the boat when you overrated these 2 earlier this year, just as you did for Rail Trip, another mistake by you, and though you hate to admit it, and throw up your standard answers of deflection, your opinion was dreadfully wrong about them all. We both know this, but keep trying. I know you like to say you always get the last laugh, but this laugh will always be on you. You know and I know it.

This is what I'm talking about. Explain to me how I overrated anyone this year. I overrated Rail Trip? How so?

Don't hide behind your stupidity. Explain yourself, prove what you are saying for once.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

This is what I'm talking about. Explain to me how I overrated anyone this year. I overrated Rail Trip? How so?

Don't hide behind your stupidity. Explain yourself, prove what you are saying for once.

Since you rejoined here in July, it's kind of hard to dig up posts from PA. But you did infer on that other forum that Zenyatta was afraid of Rail Trip didn't you? Now to infer that you are afraid of someone, one must have a somewhat high regard for that someone don't they? I told you there then that Rail Trip was an extremely overrated horse and the times compared between the 2 races that Zenyatta and RT ran esp when you consider she carried 129 and he only 115 were greatly exaggerated.Maybe you were just hoping anyone would beat Zenyatta and RT was the horse you thought could, now I do agree she should have run against the boys as I think it would have taken next to nothing out of her, but again you blame that squarely on the shoulders of the connections, not the horse.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

Since you rejoined here in July, it's kind of hard to dig up posts from PA. But you did infer on that other forum that Zenyatta was afraid of Rail Trip didn't you? Now to infer that you are afraid of someone, one must have a somewhat high regard for that someone don't they? I told you there then that Rail Trip was an extremely overrated horse and the times compared between the 2 races that Zenyatta and RT ran esp when you consider she carried 129 and he only 115 were greatly exaggerated.Maybe you were just hoping anyone would beat Zenyatta and RT was the horse you thought could, now I do agree she should have run against the boys as I think it would have taken next to nothing out of her, but again you blame that squarely on the shoulders of the connections, not the horse.

First off, you idiot, I never said Zenyatta was afraid of them. I don't think she cares where she runs. Her connections were afraid of him and at the time I thought it was hilarious because he isn't much. Remember the top of the mountain stuff?

So again, how did I personally overrate anyone?

[classhandicapper]

I hate to get in the middle of this one, but IMO......

1. There is a difference between between being afraid of Rail Trip and not wanting to face him because it might be a taxing effort to beat him. Many people disagree with the perspective of her connections, Sheet players and others. But some feel that an easier well spaced campaign maximizes the chances of a peak at the end of the year. Right or wrong, that was their goal and belief.

2. I don't think Rail Trip's effort for Dutrow says anything about his ability. He was having problems, missed a race, wore an aluminum pad, and was on dirt for the first time. I'm not sure what the plans are for him going forward, but if he's still in training we may learn more about him later on.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I hate to get in the middle of this one, but IMO......

1. There is a difference between between being afraid of Rail Trip and not wanting to face him because it might be a taxing effort to beat him. Many people disagree with the perspective of her connections, Sheet players and others. But some feel that an easier well spaced campaign maximizes the chances of a peak at the end of the year. Right or wrong, that was their goal and belief.

2. I don't think Rail Trip's effort for Dutrow says anything about his ability. He was having problems, missed a race, wore an aluminum pad, and was on dirt for the first time. I'm not sure what the plans are for him going forward, but if he's still in training we may learn more about him later on.

Who cares what the difference is?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I hate to get in the middle of this one, but IMO......

1. There is a difference between between being afraid of Rail Trip and not wanting to face him because it might be a taxing effort to beat him. Many people disagree with the perspective of her connections, Sheet players and others. But some feel that an easier well spaced campaign maximizes the chances of a peak at the end of the year. Right or wrong, that was their goal and belief.

2. I don't think Rail Trip's effort for Dutrow says anything about his ability. He was having problems, missed a race, wore an aluminum pad, and was on dirt for the first time. I'm not sure what the plans are for him going forward, but if he's still in training we may learn more about him later on.

You were over at PA, you know Dahoss's posts, after Rachel skipped out of the Apple Blossom and lost to Zardana, it obviously ate away at him and when Zenyatta won the Blossom he was hoping Rail Trip would have been the horse to take down Zenyatta. Based on his view of the race he ran in the Californian.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Who cares what the difference is?

Either way the result was that she didn't face him, but one implies fear of losing and the other implies long term strategic thinking. Subtle but significant as to motivation.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

You were over at PA, you know Dahoss's posts, after Rachel skipped out of the Apple Blossom and lost to Zardana, it obviously ate away at him and when Zenyatta won the Blossom he was hoping Rail Trip would have been the horse to take down Zenyatta. Based on his view of the race he ran in the Californian.

You are so full of sh.it it's coming out of your ears. I get it. Since you have no arguement make stuff up. You're in good company there.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

One implies fear of losing and the other implies long term strategic thinking even though the result is the same.

Fear is fear. They were afraid of losing then or later in the year. Must everything be a hedge?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You are so full of sh.it it's coming out of your ears. I get it. Since you have no arguement make stuff up. You're in good company there.

You telling me you didn't want Zenyatta to face Rail Trip in the Gold Cup? That's very hard to believe, and you would be rooting for Zenyatta as opposed to Rail Trip. That's a major a stretch.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

You telling me you didn't want Zenyatta to face Rail Trip in the Gold Cup? That's very hard to believe, and you would be rooting for Zenyatta as opposed to Rail Trip. That's a major a stretch.

Keep moving those goalposts. You have yet to prove your accusations earlier because you can't.

Nothing new here sissy.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Fear is fear. They were afraid of losing then or later in the year. Must everything be a hedge?

We already discussed this.

WE are all fully entitled to disagree with their ideas, race selections etc.... But they wanted to win HOTY and thought the best way to do it was to win the Classic. So they structured her campaign in the way they thought maximized her chances of delivering the best race she was capable of at age 6 on BC day.

Now that they've lost, we are all free to second guess their decisions and suggest what might have worked better. But I understand their thinking even if I don't agree on all the details.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Keep moving those goalposts. You have yet to prove your accusations earlier because you can't.

Nothing new here sissy.

I'll tell you what, if PA begs me to come back. I would be happy to remind you, veiled comments and all. Your opinion of Zenyatta sure seems to have changed since this spring.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

We already discussed this.

WE are all fully entitled to disagree with their ideas, race selections etc.... But they wanted to win HOTY and thought the best way to do it was to win the Classic. So they structured her campaign in the way they thought maximized her chances of delivering the best race she was capable of at age 6 on BC day.

Now that they've lost, we are all free to second guess their decisions and suggest what might have worked better. But I understand their thinking even if I don't agree on all the details.

The point is they were afraid of racing against Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup. We can each interpret in in our own ways or speculate the reasons why. But it doesn't change the main point, which is that they did not want to run against him specifically in that race.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'll tell you what, if PA begs me to come back. I would be happy to remind you, veiled comments and all. Your opinion of Zenyatta sure seems to have changed since this spring.

More making stuff up. My opinion has been the same. She's a very, very good horse. I said it then and say it now.

Look at how YOU have twisted and turned since this morning. Hilarious. What a sissy.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

More making stuff up. My opinion has been the same. She's a very, very good horse. I said it then and say it now.

Look at how YOU have twisted and turned since this morning. Hilarious. What a sissy.

Ask him to explain his euro wet turf is firm stance.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

The point is they were afraid of racing against Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup. We can each interpret in in our own ways or speculate the reasons why. But it doesn't change the main point, which is that they did not want to run against him specifically in that race.

I think we could probably make a long list of connections that avoided other horses in specific races because they didn't want to meet them until the end of the season or in a specific key race.

I guess we have a different definition of fear.

I define it as not wanting to face an opponent because you are afraid of losing to them. That was not the case here. They simply wanted to meet and pummel him later.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think we could probably make a long list of connections that avoided other horses in specific races because they didn't want to meet them until the end of the season or in a specific key race.

I guess we have a different definition of fear.

I define it as not wanting to face an opponent because you are afraid of losing to them. That was not the case here. They simply wanted to meet and pummel him later.

Who cares about the other connections? No one is talking about them. We're talking about specific connections that avoided a specific race and the excuse they used was another horse was "the highest mountain" and they didn't want to face him.

I'm going by what they said. Feel free to go by whatever you'd like. Had they made mention of her not being 100% or something else, okay. That didn't happen. Even if they were just looking to pad her record (a real distinct possibility) that would mean they were afraid to face him because they thought he could beat her.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Who cares about the other connections? No one is talking about them. We're talking about specific connections that avoided a specific race and the excuse they used was another horse was "the highest mountain" and they didn't want to face him.

I'm going by what they said. Feel free to go by whatever you'd like. Had they made mention of her not being 100% or something else, okay. That didn't happen. Even if they were just looking to pad her record (a real distinct possibility) that would mean they were afraid to face him because they thought he could beat her.

Ugh, thanks for making me read his post Hoss. I guess I did that to BTW earlier, so fair is fair.

I really love the part though, about they didn't want to pummel Rail Trip now. They wanted to save that pummeling for later on! How precious is that?