Steve Haskin;s Top Derby Contendars

[slotdirt]

Did euro just use Zito's 2007 stats in this argument?

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Did euro just use Zito's 2007 stats in this argument?

Combine 31st in trainer stats with the 20th last year and you can see a nice pattern developing here. He was 8th in 2005, 9th in 2004, 14th in 2003 and 23rd in 2002. I think the year 2002, 2006 and so far in 2007 is more reflective of his training skill. He fits between 20-40. A couple of good years. But Zito is avg at best. I can name 20 trainers I would rather have than Zito. And apparently so can many owners.

[slotdirt]

Do you realize what a small sample size 20 starts is for a trainer that averages in the 400-500 range over the course of a year?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

wtf are you typing about..zito living in the 90s ..he had 5 starters in the derby less than 2 years ago...dude just shut your pie hole..your arguments are not valid...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

His success has been been fading the past couple of years and it will continue to decline. That was my prediction a couple of months ago and so far $6,000 per start is backing me up.

Doug O'Neill's average per start is $7,380. Contessa's is $5,541. Motion's is $7,304. Mclaughlin's is $6,969.

So, with all of the HUGE stakes races that have been run so far to boost average earnings per start.....these 16 days (and his mind-blowingly huge number of 20 starts) of 2007 are the indicator that Zito doesn't know what he is doing and has no clue about this horse?

The logic doesn't work.

[Linny]

Why would a colt who broke his MD with a 66 BSF at Calder then ran 3rd in a slowish allowance race be getting alot of mention from Nick. He's certainly well bred but nothing he's done so far screams "Derby" and maybe Nick knows it.

He's bred for routing (by Awesome Again) and maybe (again a guess, I don't speak to Nick daily or spy on his records) he's a bit slow growing and is in need of time. I don't recall hearing his name on the several occasions when I was in the Zito barn at SAR. Does that mean he wasn't there, no, but no one was talking about him. THAT speaks volumes.

It is unreal that anyone would say that just because THEY are not informed about a given horse's plans that he's "languishing." Trainers owe the public nothing in terms of info. What they do choose to discuss with the press is usually dependent upon what the media asks. Zito is not sending out media releases. If Grening (or others) come knocking he will answer their questions but he's not likely to bring up horses that are not on the writer's list.


BTW, the $200k San Fernando is the richest race run this year. Exactly how many stakes has Zito entered this year?

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

wtf are you typing about..zito living in the 90s ..he had 5 starters in the derby less than 2 years ago...dude just shut your pie hole..your arguments are not valid...

And how many starters did he have last year? How many graded stakes did he win last year?

[Linny]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Combine 31st in trainer stats with the 20th last year and you can see a nice pattern developing here. He was 8th in 2005, 9th in 2004, 14th in 2003 and 23rd in 2002. I think the year 2002, 2006 and so far in 2007 is more reflective of his training skill. He fits between 20-40. A couple of good years. But Zito is avg at best. I can name 20 trainers I would rather have than Zito. And apparently so can many owners.

Todd Pletcher has no wins this year, he must suck too. If Zito's owners would rather have 20 other trainers, why don't they? Oh yeah, he's got the horses locked in the barn in the dark, hiding them from you.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Doug O'Neill's average per start is $7,380. Contessa's is $5,541. Motion's is $7,304. Mclaughlin's is $6,969.

So, with all of the HUGE stakes races that have been run so far to boost average earnings per start.....these 16 days (and his mind-blowingly huge number of 20 starts) of 2007 are the indicator that Zito doesn't know what he is doing and has no clue about this horse?

The logic doesn't work.

O'Neill is 2nd, Contessa is 3rd, Motion is 8th and McLaughlin is 16th in trainers stats. All ahead of the 31st person which is Zito.

Originally Posted by Linny

Todd Pletcher has no wins this year, he must suck too. If Zito's owners would rather have 20 other trainers, why don't they? Oh yeah, he's got the horses locked in the barn in the dark, hiding them from you.

Come on, Pletcher is suspended. Bad example right there.

[blackthroatedwind]

Did I pull a Rip Van Winkle and is it August 16th and not January 16th?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

O'Neill is 2nd, Contessa is 3rd, Motion is 8th and McLaughlin is 16th in trainers stats. All ahead of the 31st person which is Zito.

Who cares? I'm pointing out that you're cornerstone statistic in bashing Zito is his 'paltry' $6,000/start earning average. That certainly doesn't stack up very badly with some trainers who are, according to your mathematical computation, well ahead of him in trainer stats.....

.......after 16 days.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did I pull a Rip Van Winkle and is it August 16th and not January 16th?

took the words out of my mouth (well the thought out of my head anyway)...you guys are wasting an awful lot of energy fighting over an absolutely ridiculous premise...it IS only January 16th...

I will say that Forefathers is a nice looking horse. I hope to see him race soon.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

took the words out of my mouth (well the thought out of my head anyway)...you guys are wasting an awful lot of energy fighting over an absolutely ridiculous premise...it IS only January 16th...

A troll incites with no real purpose other than to incite.

Originally Posted by paisjpq

took the words out of my mouth (well the thought out of my head anyway)...you guys are wasting an awful lot of energy fighting over an absolutely ridiculous premise...it IS only January 16th...

We will see come year end when Zito is again no better than 20th in trainer stats.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

took the words out of my mouth (well the thought out of my head anyway)...you guys are wasting an awful lot of energy fighting over an absolutely ridiculous premise...it IS only January 16th...

Which I think is the point (that you're now the FIFTH person on just this PAGE to make) that we're trying to get through to Euro, is that the stats being used are useless in trying to make a point.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Which I think is the point (that you're now the FIFTH person on just this PAGE to make) that we're trying to get through to Euro, is that the stats being used are useless in trying to make a point.

Again, the end of the year will prove once again that Zito is on the downside of his career. And IMO it couldnt come fast enough.

[slotdirt]

WHy the hatred for Zito?

Originally Posted by slotdirt

WHy the hatred for Zito?

That is between Zito and I.