Barbaro The Topic of Larry King Tonight

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Didn't see the show so I'll talk generally....as a PETA member myself, I don't think it's fair to lump folks together. Some folks are very aggressive and often times ill-informed...on both sides of this issue. I joined PETA and remain a member because they do in fact do a lot of good things...facing down corporate giants like KFC for instance...those folks need to answer for the abuses they allow. Obviously, I don't support banning racing, but I do fully support every effort to make life better for the horses...sometimes, being goofy and outrageous is the only way to get a message across..we were ridiculed in the Civil Rights movement too! PETA has more than it's share of "nut jobs", but the work they do is necessary and usually...thankless! PETA isn't the problem, human greed and lack of compassion is! If everyone treated their animals like the connections of Barbaro do, there would be no need for PETA. The vast majority of folks in racing are good, caring, compassionate folks...but we all need to be reminded that there are still far too many of the other kind!

My apologies, Somer! But why can't Larry King put members like you on-air?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

My apologies, Somer! But why can't Larry King put members like you on-air?

Probably cause I'd defend positions using common sense which would put his audience to sleep...who wants to hear fair and balanced when they can enjoy name-calling and demonizing? PETA has of course learned this...a naked Hollywood starlet draws more attention than a middle-aged man just as all forms of extremism always draw attention!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Probably cause I'd defend positions using common sense which would put his audience to sleep...who wants to hear fair and balanced when they can enjoy name-calling and demonizing? PETA has of course learned this...a naked Hollywood starlet draws more attention than a middle-aged man just as all forms of extremism always draw attention!

Excellent point, but I think it's also easy to turn people off to something because of extremism-- I had a friend who was a fanatical vegetarian for years- the sort who would "moo" at her friends' burgers. I was very tempted to try vegetarianism, but she kept me away from it for an additional two years because I didn't want to behave like her! I finally tried it when I was away at college so she wouldn't find out- isn't THAT funny. I think the abuses in animal industries, racing, food, whatever, are manifold, but when the knee-jerk reaction is "ban it" rather than "reform it" I think people tune out the message. If PETA would put its clout behind demanding racetracks fund retirement homes for retired racehorses, for example, I bet they could generate lots of public support and pressure to allot a tiny portion of purses or wagers to retirement care.

Not to mention run some great ads with naked celebrities and horses... wait, maybe that wouldn't be so great...

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Scav

Randall, I couldn't agree more, I think it could be mandotory that 1 penny from every wager placed should be put into a retirement fund by the tracks. , do you realize how much money that would be for a select few retirement farms, they could operate EASILY on a budget like that......

On another note, I ABSOLUTELY love when someone has no clue what they are talking about, it is great to see.

How about a QUARTER from every SLOT MACHINE WAGER instead?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

How about a QUARTER from every SLOT MACHINE WAGER instead?

rescues wouldn't know what to do with that much $$$$

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

rescues wouldn't know what to do with that much $$$$

They could start to reimburse me for all I do for them!!

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

They could start to reimburse me for all I do for them!!

that would make no sense...it would be like rewarding a good deed
how's Peekskill doing?

[pmayjr]

Somer,
I think me and you have debated this at ESPN, but I'll bring it up again. PETA has some great causes (horse racing not being one of them). I've seen undercover vids they've shot or gotten ahold of at various slaughter houses and animal testing facilities. The wrongs they expose at those places is excellent work and I hope they keep it up. BUT THE SOLUTIONS IS WHERE THEY LOSE PEOPLE AND WHERE IT MAKES ME AND MOST OTHER NORMAL PEOPLE WANNA TEAR OUR ****ING HAIR OUT OF OUR HEADS:

When PETA exposes a problem- their solutions are way too radical and extreme for most normal people to follow, and they lose all the momentum they gain by exposing said problem. Case in point- When watching an undercover vid on the abuses at a pig slaughter house. It was awesome in exposing the abuses that went on there. PETA's solution (and I'm not joking when I say this people): "don't eat meat".

Give me a ****in break! Don't eat meat? So one slaughter house gets exposed for their various abuses of animals, and it's "don't eat meat"? BE ****ING REALISTIC! How about "don't buy meat from the company that uses that slaughter house"? Or "Petition local inspectors and law makers to crack down on the slaughter house" or "Petition the meat company that uses that slaughter house to not use them anymore"? What's wrong with those practical but also strong-handed, effective solutions? Yet PETA says "Don't eat meat". GHGGGRAGH!

When PETA can come up with solutions to problems that are as practical and important as their causes, people will start to take the group more seriously. Until then, all the momentum that they gain in exposing abuses and problems, they shott themselves in the foot with their retarded solutions.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Somer,
I think me and you have debated this at ESPN, but I'll bring it up again. PETA has some great causes (horse racing not being one of them). I've seen undercover vids they've shot or gotten ahold of at various slaughter houses and animal testing facilities. The wrongs they expose at those places is excellent work and I hope they keep it up. BUT THE SOLUTIONS IS WHERE THEY LOSE PEOPLE AND WHERE IT MAKES ME AND MOST OTHER NORMAL PEOPLE WANNA TEAR OUR ****ING HAIR OUT OF OUR HEADS:

When PETA exposes a problem- their solutions are way too radical and extreme for most normal people to follow, and they lose all the momentum they gain by exposing said problem. Case in point- When watching an undercover vid on the abuses at a pig slaughter house. It was awesome in exposing the abuses that went on there. PETA's solution (and I'm not joking when I say this people): "don't eat meat".

Give me a ****in break! Don't eat meat? So one slaughter house gets exposed for their various abuses of animals, and it's "don't eat meat"? BE ****ING REALISTIC! How about "don't buy meat from the company that uses that slaughter house"? Or "Petition local inspectors and law makers to crack down on the slaughter house" or "Petition the meat company that uses that slaughter house to not use them anymore"? What's wrong with those practical but also strong-handed, effective solutions? Yet PETA says "Don't eat meat". GHGGGRAGH!

When PETA can come up with solutions to problems that are as practical and important as their causes, people will start to take the group more seriously. Until then, all the momentum that they gain in exposing abuses and problems, they shott themselves in the foot with their retarded solutions.

I agree with most all you say....that's why more people should join PETA so that common sense can take the place of extremism in their policies!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree with most all you say....that's why more people should join PETA so that common sense can take the place of extremism in their policies!

Based upon that thinking we should all join Hezzbollah

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Again....don't fall into the trap of judging folks by using incidents like that! The current head of PETA does in fact walk a narrow line due to her past but again...the sad fact is that at times, the need overwhelms our ability to help...too many dogs to care for leads to tough choices, do you sacrifice some or reduce care for many? Not as black and white as the media makes it...just like how they present the racing industry...beware of that trap! If you call everyone a hypocrite who belongs to PETA because the organization isn't perfect, then you have to call anyone who is a Democrat a racist cause some of the leaders were/are, all Republicans must be rich and non-caring, all Christians must drink the Kool-Ade. Zealots exist on both sides of this (and every) issue...I recall all the character assasination attempts on DR King...never use the only-human weaknesses of the messenger to discredit the message...!

Oh I understand where your coming from Somer and I truly commend your passion. I too am a very active animal rights advocate, I even used to be a member of Peta as well, than I started receiving their brochures etc.. and while I too would love nothing more than to end needless, senseless abuse, their end didn't justify their means. I mean, seriously, they are against the owning of animals period, they claim we don't have the rights to ''own'' animals. Let's be real, at least in my case, my dogs, cats, and horses would hit them over the head with a shovel if they were made to live on their own!
I think my pets are quite happy with their lots in life. I just think there are FAR, FAR better organizations to donate and support.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Based upon that thinking we should all join Hezzbollah

Or the Republican Party

Nah, honestly I used to be a member of PETA, but then the more newsletters I would get and the more I would understand what their endgame is, I just couldn't be a part of it anymore.

Then I started eating meat again. Gotta fix that one again. The answers aren't just as simple as don't eat meat or give PETA your money. It's a much larger problem that will take much larger steps and actions to fix.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The answers aren't just as simple as don't eat meat or give PETA your money. It's a much larger problem that will take much larger steps and actions to fix.

The problem is that the problem does not really have a workable answer. Giving money to radical organizations like PETA which use your money to promote more radical ideas regardless of what level headed members want makes the problem worse.
The biggest problem I have with animal rights people is how do they know what animals want?
I'm sure chickens don't want to be fried and eaten but what about the wolf that eats them in the wild? Is he denying the chicken his rights when he eats him? I mean couldn't the wolf forage and eat plants instead of chickens ? Should we protest the woods because of the animal killings that go on there? Animal on animal crime! It has to stop !!!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem is that the problem does not really have a workable answer. Giving money to radical organizations like PETA which use your money to promote more radical ideas regardless of what level headed members want makes the problem worse.
The biggest problem I have with animal rights people is how do they know what animals want?
I'm sure chickens don't want to be fried and eaten but what about the wolf that eats them in the wild? Is he denying the chicken his rights when he eats him? I mean couldn't the wolf forage and eat plants instead of chickens ? Should we protest the woods because of the animal killings that go on there? Animal on animal crime! It has to stop !!!

cute...but that argument misses the point...I'm not responsible for the wolf's behavior, or your's for that matter...I am responsible for mine and you for your's. Just cause a wolf painfully kills a rabbit, chicken etc, that doesn't excuse me if I do the same. I won't argue that PETA takes extreme measures, some of which I oppose...but they are also doing a lot of good! I'm not saying that anyone has to agree with PETA...just don't use that as a justification for ignoring the abuse that occurs. If more folks took active roles in animal rescue, political movements that demand protective legislation etc, PETA wouldn't be necessary. I eat meat, it a natural thing imo for humans...but that meat can be obtained humanely just as pets can receive humane treatment etc. All I'm saying is that the problem is abusive behavior, not PETA's behavior in response. People have every right to speak out about PETA's more aggressive practices, but please keep the real problem in mind.

[Cajungator26]

To me, the problem isn't the fact that we slaughter animals for human consumption... it's HOW we slaughter them. An animal shouldn't have to go through fear and suffering before it's killed.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

To me, the problem isn't the fact that we slaughter animals for human consumption... it's HOW we slaughter them. An animal shouldn't have to go through fear and suffering before it's killed.

I totally agree! A guy drives down the road and sees a dead deer... he makes a couple of calls and the deer ends up as dinner... so why do they have to stun, hang and slit? why not do it humanely?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

cute...but that argument misses the point...I'm not responsible for the wolf's behavior, or your's for that matter...I am responsible for mine and you for your's. Just cause a wolf painfully kills a rabbit, chicken etc, that doesn't excuse me if I do the same. I won't argue that PETA takes extreme measures, some of which I oppose...but they are also doing a lot of good! I'm not saying that anyone has to agree with PETA...just don't use that as a justification for ignoring the abuse that occurs. If more folks took active roles in animal rescue, political movements that demand protective legislation etc, PETA wouldn't be necessary. I eat meat, it a natural thing imo for humans...but that meat can be obtained humanely just as pets can receive humane treatment etc. All I'm saying is that the problem is abusive behavior, not PETA's behavior in response. People have every right to speak out about PETA's more aggressive practices, but please keep the real problem in mind.

I understand what you are saying but PETA has become the problem far too often. They have become an issue which takes away from the true issues.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand what you are saying but PETA has become the problem far too often. They have become an issue which takes away from the true issues.

tree huggers....lol

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

To me, the problem isn't the fact that we slaughter animals for human consumption... it's HOW we slaughter them. An animal shouldn't have to go through fear and suffering before it's killed.

And the biggest evil we perpetrate on them isn't even the slaughter- it's the conditions we keep them while we're raising them to get big enough to eat. The misery they spend their short lives in is awful- jammed into cages so small they can't turn around- tails and beaks cut off, never seeing sunlight. For their entire lives. So, I wish PETA and other animal groups would focus on getting factory farms outlawed. Several European nations have done it, and people there still seem to manage to eat meat, so I imagine we could do it, too.

Plus factory farms are really, really bad for the environment. And for the small farmer.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And the biggest evil we perpetrate on them isn't even the slaughter- it's the conditions we keep them while we're raising them to get big enough to eat. The misery they spend their short lives in is awful- jammed into cages so small they can't turn around- tails and beaks cut off, never seeing sunlight. For their entire lives. So, I wish PETA and other animal groups would focus on getting factory farms outlawed. Several European nations have done it, and people there still seem to manage to eat meat, so I imagine we could do it, too.

Plus factory farms are really, really bad for the environment. And for the small farmer.

The problem with that (in the majority of Americans' eyes) is that in order to support the small farms, it costs more money. It sucks. I personally don't mind spending an extra few bucks if it means that I've helped an animal.