Stress Kills: Ken Lay Dead at 64

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Sorry, I don't even buy "Castro, the ruthless dictator". Battista, the guy Castro overthrew, was a ruthless dictator. We, the US, have supported numerous ruthless dictators when it suited our purpose. We supported Battista's regime, and we've paid the price for 50 years. Castro is a saint compared to Battista, who fled with as much of his country's wealth as he could stuff into his offshore accounts.

Faulty reasoning ...

... a mass murderer is a mass murderer ...

... and just because someone else is a mass murderer ... that doesn't make your mass murders any more defensible.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Good point Dunbar.
Just a question...which country supported the dictator named Saddam until about 1990?
And if you get that one, which country supported the dictator in the Phillipines named Marcos?

No it's not a good point ... see my above post.

And all of the countries where we once supported dictators ... are now free and democratic ... among them Taiwan, Phillipines, South Korea, Nicaragua, Spain, Chile, Iraq, El Salvador, and others I've forgotten.

Pretty good strategy, eh? Support the lesser of two evils ... become a trusted advisor ... and work from there to promote freedom and democracy.

Pretty good? Why it's terrific !!!

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Ken Lay was a crook ... but please allow me to repeat the facts of this "pension" stuff ...

No Enron employees lost any of their own money. What they "lost" was the paper value of the Enron stocks which had been pledged to their pension plan. The value of these stocks was never "theirs" to begin with ... it was only something they were told they would get in the future.

It's like someone saying they'll give you a Rolex watch on your next birthday ... then not doing it.

Castigate Mr. Lay for being a crook ... but please stop wailing about the "little people" who had their "life savings" stolen from them ... because there weren't any.

More sophmoric idiocrisy from you.

Much of the stock was held in the form of options through an ESOP. The shares had a vesting schedule.

And, as any of mnd person will tell you, these shares as well as the ongoing contributions of Enron to these plans repereseted a huge potion of total compensation.

To say that these people "Had it coming" is the stupidest comment you have made yet (congratulations).

Dey Wuz Robbed.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I don't disagree with your characterizations, I would only point out that while "better" than Battista, Castro has allowed great suffering by the people of Cuba...of course, this rather stupid embargo that the US persists with for obvious internal political reasons hasn't helped.

IMO, the embargo has caused far more suffering than any of Castro's policies.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Faulty reasoning ...

... a mass murderer is a mass murderer ...

Please give me some documented examples of Castro's "mass murders". Hopefully better "documented" than weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

--Dunbar

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Please give me some documented examples of Castro's "mass murders". Hopefully better "documented" than weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Sorry ... I completely forgot about this thread.

Try this ... http://www.enterstageright.com/archi.../0505fidel.htm ... and this ... http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods47.html ... and this ... http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...3/171252.shtml.

Happy reading.

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Ond of your BEST Grand Master..............

Hey, kid ... they're all my best ...

I never waver ... I can keep going at an :11-clip indefinitely ...

... and without a battery !!!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sorry ... I completely forgot about this thread.

Try this ... http://www.enterstageright.com/archi.../0505fidel.htm ... and this ... http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods47.html ... and this ... http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...3/171252.shtml.

Happy reading.

Grasping, twisting, avoiding...geat debating!
You were asked about Castro and somehow you twisted this to mean Che Guevara...twister that you are.
Your last "article" cites "Alice in Wonderland".
Now I know where you're from! Say hi to Tweedle Dee for me...and forget about his buddy, cause I already know that you're Tweedle......

DUM!!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

My point is that the assets weren't some poor schnook's "life savings" ... as if Lay destroyed a bank where people had been squirreling their money.

Any reputable financial advisor will say that it's unwise to keep all your assets ... savings, pension, whatever ... in one stock. Diversify ... diversify ... diversify is what they all preach. Those who kept all of their pension assets in Enron stock were as unwise as Ken Lay was crooked.

In any case ... it wasn't their "life savings" which were lost.

It's what they'd planned to retire on. If that's not your life savings, what is?

Yes, duh about diversification, but you'd be amazed at how many people don't know to do that. They don't teach you it in school. Or to put money aside BESIDES Social Security, because 40 percent of your average income ain't much to retire on... as those poor Enron folks suckered by Lay are going to find out.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It's what they'd planned to retire on. If that's not your life savings, what is?

Yes, duh about diversification, but you'd be amazed at how many people don't know to do that. They don't teach you it in school. Or to put money aside BESIDES Social Security, because 40 percent of your average income ain't much to retire on... as those poor Enron folks suckered by Lay are going to find out.

Genuine Risk,
You got that right. Unfortunately, with his death also go away all charges and findings. At the time that the Enron were given options for their retirements, they couldn't touch their "holdings" unless they were over 50.
That was the law as of 2003, and it effected 20% of all "stock holders", not only Enron's. Since then, the law has been amended, however it still effects 8% of those that hold stock in the companies they hope to retire from.
Some of Enron's workers have really been "hung out to dry". There was an item on the news about a 74 year old man that helped build the company, aand lost over 1.3 million in earned retirement benefits. Now he's living on SS.
It seems with recent events, Ken Lay is guilty of nothing as he wasn't sentenced. That's the law.
All the rest that worked all of their lives are S h Outta Luck.
Justice?
Not in this country.
A shame that they can't even touch the estate.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Genuine Risk,
You got that right. Unfortunately, with his death also go away all charges and findings. At the time that the Enron were given options for their retirements, they couldn't touch their "holdings" unless they were over 50.
That was the law as of 2003, and it effected 20% of all "stock holders", not only Enron's. Since then, the law has been amended, however it still effects 8% of those that hold stock in the companies they hope to retire from.
Some of Enron's workers have really been "hung out to dry". There was an item on the news about a 74 year old man that helped build the company, aand lost over 1.3 million in earned retirement benefits. Now he's living on SS.
It seems with recent events, Ken Lay is guilty of nothing as he wasn't sentenced. That's the law.
All the rest that worked all of their lives are S h Outta Luck.
Justice?
Not in this country.
A shame that they can't even touch the estate.

Disgusting. The guy got off completely.