Jeremy Rose

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by GPK

I can't think of any legitimate excuse for doing something like that. No way he can claim it was accidental...he clearly swung the whip at the horses face.

While there's no excuse for striking a horse like that
there is a more GENERAL CAUSE to the problem and an incident such as this could've been expected.

When they come around the turn at DEL, and TAM (among other tracks), there's an OPENING where the main turf course runs. (In TAM, the grass is cut in that area in a way that makes the horses run out. Yet the stewards have no problem DQing horses who fall into this TRAP.)

If you watch these sprints at DEL, every race you see a horse that tries to take a left turn into that opening. While this wasn't necessarily the case in this instance, the horse was trying to get in.

Solve the problem by putting up a temporary rail. Sooner or later a horse will seriously bolt and kill someone.

The same applies to the mile races at GP and other tracks with similar configurations (the rail never fails to duck in at the break).

[slotdirt]

Look, all I'm saying is that Rose is a well-liked jock by the average fan who is well-spoken and is, at least in my opinion, pretty talented. I think he built up enough good karma with the general public in 2005 that perhaps he won't be judged quite as harshly as he might have otherwise. I hardly think this is the end of his career, nor should it be.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Look, all I'm saying is that Rose is a well-liked jock by the average fan who is well-spoken and is, at least in my opinion, pretty talented. I think he built up enough good karma with the general public in 2005 that perhaps he won't be judged quite as harshly as he might have otherwise. I hardly think this is the end of his career, nor should it be.

What difference does it make if fans like him? There are no fans at Delaware anyway.

[Scav]

Someone should sick Cherie on his ass, he would straighten up real quick

[TalkToTheHoof]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Look, all I'm saying is that Rose is a well-liked jock by the average fan who is well-spoken and is, at least in my opinion, pretty talented. I think he built up enough good karma with the general public in 2005 that perhaps he won't be judged quite as harshly as he might have otherwise. I hardly think this is the end of his career, nor should it be.

Out on some of the other forums where there are a lot of average fans, the initial reaction was "I really like Jeremy, I hope this isn't true".

But now that the incident has been confirmed, and the video is on calracing and YouTube, most of those same folks are pretty angry with him.

Maybe they will soften if/when Rose makes a statement (or apology) to the media.

It will be interesting to see how this is handled by the media, considering that use of the whip was one of the issues covered in the Jockey Club Thoroughbred Safety Committee recommendations.

[slotdirt]

I just want to hear something from Jeremy explaining the whole deal. I'm still in "say it ain't so" mode I suppose.

Edit: Disbelief, that describes my thoughts better than "say it ain't so." This isn't Eight Men Out.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hope you arent saying that using an electrical device is the equal to a medication positive? Maybe for etorphine. As we have discussed far too often about positive tests, the system sucks, most positives have no effect on the horse, and the vast majority are for allowed meds. A "machine" is blatantly illegal.

I can remember lots of trainers getting 30 to 45 day suspensions including Pletcher.

The difference between a jockey getting days and a trainer getting days is that the trainer has employees and expenses that dont go away. A jock packs his stuff and goes on vacation. Not to mention the trouble caused for the connections who have to scramble to find a new rider, often after the best jocks are already locked up.

I'm not talking about the careless medication overage/positive. I'm talking about the intentional stuff. To me, knowingly giving a horse an illegal painkiller (also "blatantly illegal" to use your term) is no less brutal than using a battery; in some ways, its more brutal, because it puts the life of both horse and rider at risk, not to mention those of others in the same race.

The 30 to 45 day suspensions that these high profile trainers received were appealed endlessly, often negotiated down as part of some agreement, and then rendered effectively meaningless when the keys to the store were simply turned over to the assistant. The old adage that "justice delayed is justice denied" applies in these situations.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'm not talking about the careless medication overage/positive. I'm talking about the intentional stuff. To me, knowingly giving a horse an illegal painkiller (also "blatantly illegal" to use your term) is no less brutal than using a battery; in some ways, its more brutal, because it puts the life of both horse and rider at risk, not to mention those of others in the same race.

The 30 to 45 day suspensions that these high profile trainers received were appealed endlessly, often negotiated down as part of some agreement, and then rendered effectively meaningless when the keys to the store were simply turned over to the assistant. The old adage that "justice delayed is justice denied" applies in these situations.

If you have a problem with the American legal system then we have have to move the discussion to another forum. Most if not all of those cases dealt with microscopic levels of legal meds. Name one case where a trainer has been found guilty of giving a horse an illegal painkiller that didnt get a long suspension.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you have a problem with the American legal system then we have have to move the discussion to another forum. Most if not all of those cases dealt with microscopic levels of legal meds. Name one case where a trainer has been found guilty of giving a horse an illegal painkiller that didnt get a long suspension.

As a lawyer myself, I'm not going to kill the legal system, but having handled cases for other professionals (doctors, nurses, etc.) who have had disciplinary proceedings brought against them for alleged professional misconduct, the penalties that they face for sometimes ambiguous fact scenarios (where the conduct is unintentional) are far more severe than the penalties that the trainers face even when the conduct is intentional.

That being said, I think we can probably agree that it gets back to the observation that BTW made on a thread in the past few days: the real problem is the use of undetectable designer drugs (often used to mask pain). And someone made the great point (actually, I think it may have been you) that we may need serious penalties for some more innocuous stuff because such penaltes would be akin to trying to put the mob out of business by getting them for tax evasion.

[Cannon Shell]

I'm not trying to make light of trainer suspensions but to say jockey suspensions are harsher than tranier suspensions is strange. If a jockey gets a 7 day suspension they are really only getting a 5 day one simply because they only have 5 and sometimes 4 day work weeks. A trainer usually gets 15 days and like us or not we have a whole lot more people and animals that depend on us daily than jockeys. Neither are really big deals but i am tired of hearing how easy trainers have it. If I were to get a 6 month suspension (most trainers actually) it would kill my business. I would like to see most of the people here close up your business or quit your job for 6 months and see what happens? Maybe the big trainers can get through fine (as we have seen) but can we treat them differently because they are sucessful?

Personally I think that 6 months is excessive for Rose.

[booner]

Just watched the replay. Unbelievable.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not trying to make light of trainer suspensions but to say jockey suspensions are harsher than tranier suspensions is strange. If a jockey gets a 7 day suspension they are really only getting a 5 day one simply because they only have 5 and sometimes 4 day work weeks. A trainer usually gets 15 days and like us or not we have a whole lot more people and animals that depend on us daily than jockeys. Neither are really big deals but i am tired of hearing how easy trainers have it. If I were to get a 6 month suspension (most trainers actually) it would kill my business. I would like to see most of the people here close up your business or quit your job for 6 months and see what happens? Maybe the big trainers can get through fine (as we have seen) but can we treat them differently because they are sucessful?

I've never suggested that trainers have it easy. God knows, I appreciate the long, hard hours that you guys put in, often for relatively modest pay. Quite the contrary, I fully recognize that suspensions hurt the "little guys" more than the "big guys." They don't have the financial wherewithal to contest (and subsequently appeal) the penalties, and then they face the possibility of the horses going elsewhere as their assistants may not be in a position to run the operation in the head trainer's absence.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I've never suggested that trainers have it easy. God knows, I appreciate the long, hard hours that you guys put in, often for relatively modest pay. Quite the contrary, I fully recognize that suspensions hurt the "little guys" more than the "big guys." They don't have the financial wherewithal to contest (and subsequently appeal) the penalties, and then they face the possibility of the horses going elsewhere as their assistants may not be in a position to run the operation in the head trainer's absence.

And I am for throwing the book at guys who use illegal stuff. If I use Elephant juice and get caught I deserve life. But they arent catching those kind of guys and that kind of stuff and all the crap that is being spewed in the media doesnt come close to getting that situation under control. Bill Finley wants to get rid of Lasix. I want to get rid of Bill Finley.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not trying to make light of trainer suspensions but to say jockey suspensions are harsher than tranier suspensions is strange.

A jockey can't make any money when he's suspended.

A trainer basically gets a vacation. It would be one thing if cell phones didn't exist - and races couldn't be watched on tv or the Internet - or the trainer's help is so incompetent that they can't be left unsupervised.

The horses just run in someone elses name and the show goes on the same as always.

[slotdirt]

Alan Foreman is obviously biased given his relationship with Rose on this incident, but he said what I was thinking earlier much better than I ever could in his brief segmant with Kasept earlier.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

A jockey can't make any money when he's suspended.

A trainer basically gets a vacation. It would be one thing if cell phones didn't exist - and races couldn't be watched on tv or the Internet - or the trainer's help is so incompetent that they can't be left unsupervised.

The horses just run in someone elses name and the show goes on the same as always.

A trainer gets a vacation, yeah right. But if something happens when they are gone what then? They will still be held responsible. They may still lose the horse or owner. A trainers job day to day is to deal with issues. Those issues dont go away.We dont make any money on a day to day basis as it is. The commissions arent letting us earn any money when you have a 30 day or more suspension.

A jockey who has no expenses gets the vacation. His employees are on commission. He goes to the beach and picks back up when he gets back.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Steve Krebs can win at over 20% while on the internet for 23 hours a day.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Steve Krebs can win at over 20% while on the internet for 23 hours a day.

He is truly one of a kind

[philcski]

After watching that replay, all I can say is WOW... not only did he put the horse at risk, but himself and the rest of the field, with the way she bolted out.

If that was my horse, I would have hit Rose across the head with the whip, multiple times, and would be in jail today.

WTF WAS HE THINKING?!?!?!?

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Look, all I'm saying is that Rose is a well-liked jock by the average fan who is well-spoken and is, at least in my opinion, pretty talented. I think he built up enough good karma with the general public in 2005 that perhaps he won't be judged quite as harshly as he might have otherwise. I hardly think this is the end of his career, nor should it be.

Haven't watched the replay and I have no plan to.

Sick...

The fans though? I think he'll be judged VERY harshly by the casual fans.

This is enough to make the types that don't care either way about racing want to go and join PETA.

I think so anyway.