Andy Beyer, Dutrow, DRF

[sumitas]

And NJ's policy of testing anytime, anywhere, unannounced seems well founded .

[justindew]

Personally, I have no idea who cheats and who doesn't. But one opinion I DO have is that we, the bettors, are the only ones who will bring about change. Based on my somewhat-limited experience with racetrack management, I feel like no one in this business does anything radical unless they know for a fact that the move won't cost them their jobs (i.e. result in a loss in revenue in the short term). Why would we expect the tracks come down on drug use if we keep betting? Coming down on drug use costs money and might piss off trainers, who the tracks can't afford to piss off any more than absolutely necessary.

If bettors say "enough is enough, we're playing poker," then will tracks MIGHT have no choice but to make some meaningful changes......assuming of course that their first step, creating some lame ass poker-related wager like "The All-In" or "The Full House", fails.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by gales0678

if that was the case and ricky was so sure it was a lock , why didn't he mail it in and hammer the horse more , surely his bankroll is large eneough to have made the horse a lot lower than than 8/1 no?

Ricky?

Are you two tight?

[justindew]

How about this- If BR's Girl (1st time Wolfson, taking over from Pletcher) wins in the 4th at GP today, then we all agree that Wolfson is a cheater. If she loses, we drop the issue and vow to never bring it up again. Deal?



































(this is a joke)

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Ricky?

Are you two tight?

never met or spoke with the man if that's what you mean by tight

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by gales0678

never met or spoke with the man if that's what you mean by tight

Then why are you call him Ricky?

[CSC]

Reality today is any horse that runs a big figure is going to be under a certain amount of suspicion was he juiced or not. Is it fair to paint all horses under the same umbrella? Probably not, but it is what it is, the same can be said for baseball, track & field, extreme fighting. The problem is not restricted to horseracing. My displeasure is with certain trainers that lash out when let's face it any horseplayer worth his or her salt knows they have cheated and are probably still cheating.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Then why are you call him Ricky?

Rick , Ricky , Richard , Dick = all the same person know?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

off topic, but I just noticed your signature. Pretty ironic, especially now.

Always nice to pay homage to such a stand up guy.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by gales0678

Rick , Ricky , Richard , Dick = all the same person know?

Actually, I can only recall one person on message boards referring to him as Ricky.

Makes me wonder.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually, I can only recall one person on message boards referring to him as Ricky.

Makes me wonder.

i will refer to him as Mr Dutrow in the future so as to not cause any confusion

will that be sufficent?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Of course a vet is going to blindly defend trainers. Because really, it's as much the vet cheating as the trainer. And people that have friendships with trainers are going to defend their friends. i get that and it's noble to defend your friends. But when someone's sole defense of someone is that they are a nice guy, come on. none of us will probably ever know for sure what is going on. because in my opinion the tests are a joke. It's all speculation, but it's hard to digest some of these miraculous turnarounds.

I'm a vet, I don't cheat, I'll defend trainers I know, and your implication that if I defend a trainer it means I'm a cheat is moronic bullshiat.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by justindew

How about this- If BR's Girl (1st time Wolfson, taking over from Pletcher) wins in the 4th at GP today, then we all agree that Wolfson is a cheater. If she loses, we drop the issue and vow to never bring it up again. Deal?

(this is a joke)

There you have it, Wolfson is a juicer.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

There you have it, Wolfson is a juicer.

BR's girl was blinkers off! That shows Wolfson to be an astute horseman, more so than this Pletcher fella' that used to train her

[CSC]

Originally Posted by gales0678

i will refer to him as Mr Dutrow in the future so as to not cause any confusion

will that be sufficent?

Well there's Anthony or Sydney also, that might cause some confusion.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by CSC

Well there's Anthony or Sydney also, that might cause some confusion.

Mr R Dutrow work ?

[justindew]

This discussion has reached the point of ridiculousness.

[Riot]

Learn how to read. That's not what I wrote. You blindly defend trainers, because as a vet, if a trainer is cheating, you understand that a vet is helping he/she. So essentially the vet is just as much to blame as the trainer. Essentially you are blinly defending your profession. Again, i get it, but at least be honest about what your particular motives and agendas are.

You learn to read. I do not blindly defend all trainers, never have, and I never defend the scum in my profession that cheat.

As for the moronic stuff, you've set the bar pretty high with your performance here. Now, i won't beg any of my friends to come on now and tell you your ignorance is showing. And I certainly won't admit it afterwards. That's pretty moronic, don't you think?

Don't mind at all having friends that know me and are willing to defend me from ignorant personal attack. Internet list bullies are just that. As you know.

You don't like my opinion on matters concerning horse racing? Too bad.

I know pharmacology, drugs (legal and otherwise), physiology and anatomy of the horse, and I talk to fellow vets working tracks around the country.

It's not that big a secret what some few idiots are currently trying to use on horses, or what the "hot new thing" in cheating is.

To see some gamblers - pardon me, horseplayers - jump blindly and willing on the, "Everybody is cheating with magic undetectable expensive designer moveup drugs that make a horse improve by 15 lengths and win the Triple Crown!" bandwagon is sad, uneducated, and a misdirected waste of good bile away from those that do cheat.

The public can imagine whatever magical fantasy drug effects they want or dream they are seeing, but in reality one also has to actually be able to build such a drug to pull that fantasy off - without whacking out or killing the horse (or a current drug's side effects have to be both desireable and attainable).

Railing away with with broad accusations against whatever trainers are the current popular whipping boys, forgetting that what they are being accused of has to also at least be remotely technically possible - not for me, and I sure as hell don't apologize for not jumping on that bandwagon.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

That's a little over the top, don't you think? The suspicions posted here encompass a few trainers, hardly "everyone is cheating."

I'm talking of the general way I hear most horseplayers talk about trainers and cheating - this trainer has alot of drug overages and is on the bad list, that trainer has alot but the public never mentions him, the next trainer has nothing but is widely thought of as being an unquestioned and absolute cheat.

Here's another question that will probably cause a huge dustup: can anybody's speed figures accurately identify drug using trainers, when the figures are educated assessments of performance, not really stand-alone and merely reported data points?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Riot

Here's another question that will probably cause a huge dustup: can anybody's speed figures accurately identify drug using trainers, when the figures are educated assessments of performance, not really stand-alone and merely reported data points?

Forget the figures. Watch races. As I often say on this topic, it's not necessarily that they win, it's how they win. Some of the horses referenced from this past weekend almost won in a common gallop.