Hey Vic Stauffer..........

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

You cant accept defeat so I suggest you do one thing:

Go to Santa Anita tommorow, stand in front of the jocks room and demand your 2 dollars back from Rosario himself. There is nothing else I can say to you.

Your arguments are dumb, funny, and pointless all at the same time.

At least mine are also funny at times.

[stonegossard]

Rosario with another fine ride in the 5th...this guy is a riot to watch ride. this guy is married to the rail when chasing dead speed.

Emerald Downs call yet Vic ?????

LOL

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Rosario with another fine ride in the 5th...this guy is a riot to watch ride. this guy is married to the rail when chasing dead speed.

Emerald Downs call yet Vic ?????

LOL

Give it a rest,dude.You're embarassing yourself.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Left Bank

Give it a rest,dude.You're embarassing yourself.

You aren't kidding.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Left Bank

Give it a rest,dude.You're embarassing yourself.

Watch him.....he is the worst

[Pedigree Ann]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Yea, he kind of specializes in getting claimers to run pretty good in stakes. Notice that? Look at him get that Optional Claimer Modification to come within what? A length of Grade 2 winner Life is Sweet last Sunday? There's a lot of them. What about the horse who had it's nose in front of Cowboy Cal in early January? Almost won that huh? That's after Baffert gave up. Mandella thought Peace Chant was worth just $62,500, but O'neil showed him the horse can win that much in one damn race with him..(miracle.!!)

Optional claiming races are allowance races with one extra condition, allowing horses who have already cleared the condition to run, if they will go in for a tag. Allowance races are used by trainers to test their horses, to see if they are good enough to take the next step up, to stakes races. So for a horse to go from an allowance race (especially off a win) to run decently in a stakes race is not unprecedented. What had Life is Sweet won before the El Encino last out? A maiden and a n1x allowance.

As to Peace Chant, his stakes record reads - At 3 2nd San Vicente H (G2); At 4 2nd Los Angeles H (G3); At 6 won Phoenix Gold Cup. He looks like another Arson Squad, a horse whose form slipped when synthetics were installed and who woke up again when on real dirt. He's only managed a few starts a year so is obviously fragile, but he has shown flashes of brilliance in the past. Not surprising when you realize that Safely Kept is his mum.

[blackthroatedwind]

Somebody slam a pie in her face.

[10 pnt move up]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Yea, he kind of specializes in getting claimers to run pretty good in stakes. Notice that? Look at him get that Optional Claimer Modification to come within what? A length of Grade 2 winner Life is Sweet last Sunday? There's a lot of them. What about the horse who had it's nose in front of Cowboy Cal in early January? Almost won that huh? That's after Baffert gave up. Mandella thought Peace Chant was worth just $62,500, but O'neil showed him the horse can win that much in one damn race with him..(miracle.!!)

I am not going to defend Oneill but Peace Chant made all the sense in the world in the Phoenix Gold Cup from many handicapping angles.

1. he was going back to dirt
2. he is a much better sprinter than router
3. Oneill footed the bill to go all the way to Phx with his own horse
4. That really was not much more of a field then the 62 claimer he was just in

I posted these all the thread for those stakes at Tup last week and bet this horse.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Since it wasn't a graded stakes, they probably don't have to give them the "super tests" that the graded stakes committee mandates. Do they even test CO2 levels at Turf Paradise? He probably took him over there to skirt something. He might of liked dirt more, but he most likely took him there to cheat. He's twice been caught. He's probably cheated 200x for each instance that he's been caught. Not like they're really looking very hard.

[Honu]

Peace Chant was entered in the Barrets sale with a bunch of Jess Jacksons horses , Mandella got more money for the horse than he would have brought at auction. The horse was leaving the barn one way or another , be it at the sale or a claiming race, so there you have the whole scoop, let the crap slinging continue.

[Honu]

LOL well crap I didnt mean to ruin your hearty discussion.....

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Honu

LOL well crap I didnt mean to ruin your hearty discussion.....

Would you say the substantial increase in speed figure(compared to the effort he got the day he was claimed) is due to the change to dirt? He switched from dirt to Synthetic before, and didn't get the huge drop in performance these people's line of reasoning would suggest. It's not like he ran poorly when he switched from dirt to the synthetic in May of 07. That's not the poor performance (going to synthetic from dirt) that they keep suggesting he has. That figure is about the same as the previous race on dirt. Then, he was off a year, and never showed the same level of ability he had shown. If he had run poorly in that 1st race on synthetic, then I would understand that line of reasoning. To me, it's a mask for their cheating(since the new trainer has been caught atleast twice, and Mandella was caught when?... exactly ??) Mandella gets nice horses, and trains them in a conservative/traditional manor. When they aren't as good as they were(or the owner wants out,) then they get claimed, or bought, by a cheater, and get moved up to stakes wins. One cheats n' the other doesn't. You've seen this happen twice in the last 5 or 6 weeks. If Mandella isn't milkshaking at all, and these other guys are running 35-36 CO2, then they are probably gunna move up. I don't know if Turf Paradise is even testing CO2. If they don't, then who knows how high they run them.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Would you say the substantial increase in speed figure(compared to the effort he got the day he was claimed) is due to the change to dirt? He switched from dirt to Synthetic before, and didn't get the huge drop in performance these people's line of reasoning would suggest. It's not like he ran poorly when he switched from dirt to the synthetic in May of 07. That's not the poor performance (going to synthetic from dirt) that they keep suggesting he has. That figure is about the same as the previous race on dirt. Then, he was off a year, and never showed the same level of ability he had shown. If he had run poorly in that 1st race on synthetic, then I would understand that line of reasoning. To me, it's a mask for their cheating. Mandella gets nice horses, and trains them in a conservative/traditional manor. When they aren't as good as they were(or the owner wants out,) then they get claimed or bought by a cheater, and get moved up to stakes wins. One cheats n' the other doesn't. You've seen this happen twice in the last 5 or 6 weeks.

I think the switch to dirt made a huge diffirence with this horse because he is big and heavy and thick winded. I think the drop in class shipping to Turf Paradise helped him also because even when you run for optional claiming in California it still beats the **** out of any good stake horse they have in Arizona ......still to me the switch to dirt was the biggest help , that being
said Im sure whatever else Doug does to get a horse to a race doesnt hurt either .

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Honu

I think the switch to dirt made a huge diffirence with this horse because he is big and heavy and thick winded. I think the drop in class shipping to Turf Paradise helped him also because even when you run for optional claiming in California it still beats the **** out of any good stake horse they have in Arizona ......still to me the switch to dirt was the biggest help , that being
said Im sure whatever else Doug does to get a horse to a race doesnt hurt either .

See, that's why I'm asking about the synthetic effort in the LOS ANGELES HANDICAP in May of '07. That's atleast as good an effort as he had in his previous race on dirt. I don't see the huge switch in performance that everyone is speaking of. Also, if Mandella thought he was much better on dirt, then why didn't he ship to get dirt? Doesn't seem like he thought he had that stakes ability left on any surface.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

See, that's why I'm asking about the synthetic effort in the LOS ANGELES HANDICAP in May of '07. That's atleast as good an effort as he had in his previous race on dirt. I don't see the huge switch in performance that everyone is speaking of. Also, if Mandella thought he was much better on dirt, then why didn't he ship to get dirt? Doesn't seem like he thought he had that stakes ability left on any surface.

Not stakes ability for around these parts.

[PPerfectfan]

Originally Posted by Honu

I think the switch to dirt made a huge diffirence with this horse because he is big and heavy and thick winded. I think the drop in class shipping to Turf Paradise helped him also because even when you run for optional claiming in California it still beats the **** out of any good stake horse they have in Arizona ......still to me the switch to dirt was the biggest help , that being
said Im sure whatever else Doug does to get a horse to a race doesnt hurt either .

Well my boy, Presidental Cause won alittle stake at TP yesterday, so that should tell ya how tough it is there.lol

Originally Posted by PPerfectfan

Well my boy, Presidental Cause won alittle stake at TP yesterday, so that should tell ya how tough it is there.lol

Actually I think the boy is a girl.

Details...

And they made those horses run 1 and 5/8ths miles for 15,000
dollars... Good God!

OMG my head is spinning.

OK here goes in no partiucular order.

1. Joel is a professional athlete competeing at an elite level. That's hard. Sometimes mistakes will be made. Brett Favre throws interceptions. Albert Pujols goes 0 for 5 with 4 k's. This game is about failure. Lose 7 of 10 for your career and you're in the Hall Of Fame.

2. The race in question is especially annoying because it was a 2 way division of the same race. I was named on White Lace Jimmy had he drawn in the opposite end of the split Joel could very well have ridden both winners. Stuff like that happens everyday. Just part of the job.

3. Was it a bad ride? If you want to say that I won't argue. Of course if he gets through everystep he's a hero. Well actually not because in my opinion no matter what happened he was going to finish no better than 2nd. Glatt's horse was a beast. I don't think Lacotah could have held him off. Of course we'll never know for sure.

4. As for Joel being off to Emerald or Yavipai. I don't think so. Last year at this meeting he won 49 races. This year he has 46 and we haven't hit March. He's third in the standings behind two superstar riders. He's 5th nationally in purse money. We're both every proud of that and IMO he's only going to improve with more experience. There's not a trainer he can't ride for. I'm not quite sure what more should be expected at this point.

5. I'm not sure what my being a gambler has to do with Joel's decision making in the heat of the battle. I'll make a bet every now and then but I make my living as an agent and announcer. I have a rooting interest in every race Joel rides so I don't really see the point of betting.

All the best.

VJS

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

He's horrendous on logical horses. Always does well on shots.

With a gambler for an agent it makes one wonder....

Coach

Just curious. What exactly are you suggesting? What is "one" wondering about?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

See, that's why I'm asking about the synthetic effort in the LOS ANGELES HANDICAP in May of '07. That's atleast as good an effort as he had in his previous race on dirt. I don't see the huge switch in performance that everyone is speaking of. Also, if Mandella thought he was much better on dirt, then why didn't he ship to get dirt? Doesn't seem like he thought he had that stakes ability left on any surface.

The only race I see Mandella ship to is the Arlington Million, I rarely see him ship anywhere else. Not how he rolls