Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[The Bart]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Schools get out at 2-3 in the afternoon. You want us to believe your friend willingly worked 8 extra hours a day AFTER classes? What did she teach? Nuclear physics?

This was back in the '60s or '70s, when teachers TAUGHT the and the students LEARNED, not the 21st century, where teachers don't teach SH#T!!

[Riot]

It's no "elaborate ruse", it's well know and publicly stated. It's what the Republican Governors Association (heavily funded by the Koch brothers) have stated since their last annual meeting what their goals are for this election period. Look at Chris Christie, and Ohio.

Union busting - taking away collective bargaining rights - doesn't affect the budget at all. Zero.

The Republicans far outweigh the Democrats in corporate election sponsorship. Out of the top ten corporate political contributors in 2008 - 2010, 7 are Republican, and 3 were Democratic. Those 3 were unions.

And most realize that with the Citizens United ruling passing, it's only corporate campaign spending that matters now.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So the GOP is doing this strictly to bust unions and eliminate them as political donors (political reasons)

but...

The Democrats are fighting for the poor, oppressed union worker (altruistic reasons)


Uh ok.

This is why debating topics with you is so pointless.

Maybe your contributions would be less "pointless" if you'd address what I actually wrote, rather than going off targeting your imaginary straw men

[Riot]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Danzig

heard yesterday on the radio that last year, for the first time ever, that govt workers now make up the majority of union membership. unions have been decreasing for years now, they certainly don't want govts trying to bust them. personally, i think unions are an anachronism. with govt regulations of workplace safety, hours, overtime, etc, are they necessary any more?
also, it's time for those feeding at the public trough to have their salaries, benefits, etc match comparable jobs in the private sector. most states have govt workers who make above the average for their job-why? typically, benefits are also better than in private areas. again, why?

Don't forget the current Republican house stated they want to try and recall those government regulations regarding, "workplace safety, hours, overtime, etc" laws. FDA, OSHA, EPA - all under current GOP attack to eliminate funding and decrease regulation.

Ezra Kline, Washington Post, has as a third good article on Wisconsin. Please read his analysis of Wisconsin's "budget crisis" (not uninfluenced by Walker just giving $140 million in unfunded tax cuts to corporations, adding that amount to the deficit)

Here's what Klein found regarding public sector pay in Wisconsin, compared to private sector play in Wisconsin (read the article for the details) Notice it is "total" compensation package, including pension, benefits, etc:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...and_local.html

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Teachers are paid by taxpayer dollars. When they pay their union dues they are paying with taxpayer dollars unless they have some sort of side business. When the union then turns around ....

Sorry, no. Those taxpayer dollars become private dollars the moment they are in the paycheck. Your argument is that you have a right to determine how government workers spend their pay. That is beyond absurd. If people want to pay union dues with their own money, it's their Constitutional freedom and right to do so.

BTW You seem upset Walker is exempting Police and Fire unions

"Upset"? LOL - that's a strange word for you use. No, I simply stated why he did it - political payback.

because you claim they supported him yet seem fine with Obama exempting unions subscribing to the Obamasocialistcare Plan who supported him?.

"The claim" is in Walkers campaign finance reporting. You seem fine with stealing from the homeless. Oh, wait. You never expressed an opinion about that. But I guess your failure to express an opinion on that means you seem fine with that. Dell - I'm not going to address your silly, crazy, created fantasy segues.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

The Republicans far outweigh the Democrats in corporate election sponsorship. Out of the top ten corporate political contributors in 2008 - 2010, 7 are Republican, and 3 were Democratic. Those 3 were unions.

And most realize that with the Citizens United ruling passing, it's only corporate campaign spending that matters now.

I guess the Democrats better be a little more business friendly

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Maybe your contributions would be less "pointless" if you'd address what I actually wrote, rather than going off targeting your imaginary straw men

Actually my post was directly on point

Your biases are so severe that you refuse to even acknowledge that you may be biased. You seeminglycontinue to think that you are some centrist and think that anyone who disagrees with you is a right wing zealot. However the reality is that you are the extremist and your continued consistently far left, Huffington Post/Daily Kos/msnbc fueled diatribes ignore the fact that in most cases there is a whole lot more grey than black and white.

[Riot]

Actually my post was directly on point

No, it was silly and off base. I never said the Democrats were remotely "altruistic", nor that they wouldn't benefit by supporting unions. Those were your words. Not mine. Go attack yourself, rather than me. I didn't say what you're attacking me for.

Your biases are so severe that you refuse to even acknowledge that you may be biased. You seeminglycontinue to think that you are some centrist and think that anyone who disagrees with you is a right wing zealot. However the reality is that you are the extremist and your continued consistently far left, Huffington Post/Daily Kos/msnbc fueled diatribes ignore the fact that in most cases there is a whole lot more grey than black and white.

That's alot of going off yapping on your part. Who's the one demonstrating severe biases? Feel better now, dumping on me rather than talking about unions? This is why debating topics with you is so pointless. You can't offer much other than snarky personal attack. And bumper sticker political opinion, that blandly dismisses anything you don't like to hear or you don't agree with.

How about a little analysis on the non-necessity of unions in the 21st century, if that's your view? A little support for Walker's actions?

[Danzig]

there's no way riot's a centrist. surely she doesn't believe she is, since she acknowledges that she's predominantly anti-republ these days...
at any rate, our state and fed govts are supposed to be set up a certain way for a reason. i don't agree with those dems simply leaving town rather than do their job and vote. what ever happened to the spirit of compromise in our govts?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

there's no way riot's a centrist. surely she doesn't believe she is, since she acknowledges that she's predominantly anti-republ these days...

Yes, I do indeed acknowledge - and have said here - I'm fed up with the Republican Party in it's current form. I've never made any claim to being centrist in the last year. That's laughable.

at any rate, our state and fed govts are supposed to be set up a certain way for a reason. i don't agree with those dems simply leaving town rather than do their job and vote. what ever happened to the spirit of compromise in our govts?

It wasn't offered. Walker came in with this a week ago Friday, with a bill that undid 50 years of collective bargaining - poof, gone - with no public comment allowed, no compromise sought, and only limited floor debate allowed.

I don't blame the Dems for using procedural tactics to block the rush to ramrod this bill through. Other state legislatures have used the same "leave state" tactics in the past (Texas, Oklahoma) I don't like it, but compared to what Walker is doing ramming this bill through and refusing all compromise, and all public comment, it's what they feel right about doing.

The teachers' union, several days ago, said they would agree with all Walker's demands regarding pension and increasing their contribution. That leaves taking away collective bargaining rights. Walker refused that offer.

So we know clearly what Walker is about. It's not deficit reduction.

[AeWingnut]

Riot - it's laughable that you expect Republicans to compromise after they win an election but your hero Zero can ram healthcare down our throats because he won an election.

Walker should replace the WI 14 and fire all the "sick" teachers immediately. Revoke the licenses of the "doctors" that handed out fake excuses.
Call out the national guard and shoot the hippies


btw


Illinois is corrupt

[Riot]

Riot - it's laughable that you expect Republicans to compromise after they win an election but your hero Zero can ram healthcare down our throats because he won an election.

Hardly the same thing. And by the way, the majority of Americans currently support the PPACA or want it strengthened.

Healthcare had whole committees devoted to it for months, and tons of public and floor debate time in both houses. Plenty of opportunity for amendments and comments. Obama ran on instituting healthcare reform.

This issue doesn't have that. I can't find where Walker ran on eliminating unions (maybe he did, but can't find it). And he brought this bill up out of nowhere, last Friday, with no public comment and limited floor debate, no amendments.

Hardly comparable.

Walker should replace the WI 14 and fire all the "sick" teachers immediately. Revoke the licenses of the "doctors" that handed out fake excuses.
Call out the national guard and shoot the hippies

Walker cannot replace "the 14" that I can see - people have been trying to come up with reasons but nobody has any legally valid ones yet that I've seen.

He can fire all the teachers he wants, and get sued if they did present a note from a doctor as required. He's already said he thinks he can use the national guard to replace teachers. Good luck with that one, Walker

I'll leave it to you to shoot hippies if that's what you want. That was pretty ugly in reality at Kent State. Sorry to see you think that's a jokable item. Dangerous if you are serious.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I do indeed acknowledge - and have said here - I'm fed up with the Republican Party in it's current form. I've never made any claim to being centrist in the last year. That's laughable.



It wasn't offered. Walker came in with this a week ago Friday, with a bill that undid 50 years of collective bargaining - poof, gone - with no public comment allowed, no compromise sought, and only limited floor debate allowed.

I don't blame the Dems for using procedural tactics to block the rush to ramrod this bill through. Other state legislatures have used the same "leave state" tactics in the past (Texas, Oklahoma) I don't like it, but compared to what Walker is doing ramming this bill through and refusing all compromise, and all public comment, it's what they feel right about doing.

The teachers' union, several days ago, said they would agree with all Walker's demands regarding pension and increasing their contribution. That leaves taking away collective bargaining rights. Walker refused that offer.

So we know clearly what Walker is about. It's not deficit reduction.

i'm blaming everyone in that state for the current problems. it's why i asked about compromise. the gov is trying to force feed his stuff, the dems fled the scene. it's a big mess

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm blaming everyone in that state for the current problems. it's why i asked about compromise. the gov is trying to force feed his stuff, the dems fled the scene. it's a big mess

The majority of the State, a large one, voted Scott Walker into office to do just what he is doing. The State of WI is largely rural, farms and small towns that resent the fact the vast majority of tax dollars are not so much going to unions but to support services provided to Milwaukee and to a lesser extent Madison.

Milwaukee has been famous in recent years for building empty schools as the population has dropped while producing some of the lowest HS test scores in the nation. The teachers' union was simply a logical first target.

Surprised after all the lectures handed out by dems regarding vitriolic rhetoric they would come up with KILL the bill as their chant.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm blaming everyone in that state for the current problems. it's why i asked about compromise. the gov is trying to force feed his stuff, the dems fled the scene. it's a big mess

I agree it's a mess. The Dems have advised Walker they would return if he would allow discussion and compromise. Walker has refused and said the bill stands exactly as it is. The union has said they would agree to all his proposals regarding pension/healthcare if he removed taking away their collective bargaining rights. Walker has refused. I have no idea how this will end.

Edit: Wisconsin Law Enforcement Association, who endorsed Walker, today issues an apology and retraction of that endorsement on their website: http://www.wlea.org/

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Riot

Hardly the same thing. And by the way, the majority of Americans currently support the PPACA or want it strengthened.

That's an outrageous claim. Where do you get your misinformation? 99.9% of working Americans want it repealed.

Originally Posted by Riot

Healthcare had whole committees devoted to it for months, and tons of public and floor debate time in both houses. Plenty of opportunity for amendments and comments. Obama ran on instituting healthcare reform.

He ran on many things and if you want to hold him to that why not transparency or the reading of bills.

Originally Posted by Riot

This issue doesn't have that. I can't find where Walker ran on eliminating unions (maybe he did, but can't find it). And he brought this bill up out of nowhere, last Friday, with no public comment and limited floor debate, no amendments.

Hardly comparable.

Is he eliminating the unions? I think the unions are doing that. Walker is a natural born US citizen where 0 ... not so much.

Originally Posted by Riot

Walker cannot replace "the 14" that I can see - people have been trying to come up with reasons but nobody has any legally valid ones yet that I've seen.

see post #29 of this thread

Originally Posted by Riot

He can fire all the teachers he wants, and get sued if they did present a note from a doctor as required. He's already said he thinks he can use the national guard to replace teachers. Good luck with that one, Walker

There is video of doctors handing out notes and those so-called doctors need to be arrested or have their license revoked - whatever is easiest.

Originally Posted by Riot

I'll leave it to you to shoot hippies if that's what you want. That was pretty ugly in reality at Kent State. Sorry to see you think that's a jokable item. Dangerous if you are serious.

The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve disorder.
Richard J. Daley

[Riot]

That's an outrageous claim. Where do you get your misinformation? 99.9% of working Americans want it repealed.

Gallup. ABC/WashingtonPost. Where in the world do you get that "99.9% of working American's want it [the PPACA] repealed"? Do you have any polls at all on that?

Is he eliminating the unions? I think the unions are doing that. Walker is a natural born US citizen where 0 ... not so much.

Walker is the one whose law wants to take away collective bargaining rights. Not the unions.

And if you think the President of the United States isn't a United States citizen, you've just bought into the conspiracy theories. That's simply false.

see post #29 of this thread

There's nothing there that says Walker can replace elected officials he doesn't like or who don't show up for a vote. I haven't read about anybody trying to recall them. There's already recalls being collected on the GOP who have been there over a year. I'd think the GOP would try to do that to the Democrats if they wanted them out.

There is video of doctors handing out notes and those so-called doctors need to be arrested or have their license revoked - whatever is easiest.

Why? What the doctors are doing isn't illegal at all. You can't have people whose politics you don't like arrested. Or shot.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Riot

Why? What the doctors are doing isn't illegal at all. You can't have people whose politics you don't like arrested. Or shot.

if it isn't illegal it should be
it is dishonest

Do you deny that it is dishonest?

[richard]

Originally Posted by Danzig

heard yesterday on the radio that last year, for the first time ever, that govt workers now make up the majority of union membership. unions have been decreasing for years now, they certainly don't want govts trying to bust them. personally, i think unions are an anachronism. with govt regulations of workplace safety, hours, overtime, etc, are they necessary any more?
also, it's time for those feeding at the public trough to have their salaries, benefits, etc match comparable jobs in the private sector. most states have govt workers who make above the average for their job-why? typically, benefits are also better than in private areas. again, why? on another point, there's a city (i believe in ct) that has their cops up in arms because the mayor has suggested cutting the force a bit. with crime decreasing, it certianly makes sense. so the police are furious and demonstrating. again, why? just another example of people recognizing cuts must be made, which they agree with-til they're the group that gets the cutting. local, regional, state and even the fed have been allowed to grow too much over the years, it's time to cut back.

A good personnel department can solution any disputes fairly and quickly. There are a myriad of laws in place now. The public unions protect the incompetent and abusers. How many times are people out on leave forever with pay while nothing is resolved ? The public unions only serve themselves at taxpayer expense.

[AeWingnut]