Breeders Cup should only be held at

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Scav

Don't knock it until you see it. It might not have the smell of a huge racetrack, but there isn't a better built, nicer track in the country.....

I am sure it's nice, but to people who don't live in Chicago, the average sports fan has never heard of AP, but they know Churchill and Belmont...I would actually prefer them all to be at Belmont...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

I am sure it's nice, but to people who don't live in Chicago, the average sports fan has never heard of AP, but they know Churchill and Belmont...I would actually prefer them all to be at Belmont...

I don't think they know Belmont anymore then they know Arlington. Churchill I agree with because everyone watchs the Kentucky Derby, even my mom who is anti-horse racing.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Scav

In my experience, when it gets crazy hot here and the track cooks, speed/rail holds tremendously well....When it rains, horses comes from the clouds on the dirt.

As far as the turf, this year I saw an unusual amount of front runners hold on at Arlington, which has widely been known as a closer turf course, especially when soft/yielding

that's funny, because i thought the turf was very fair this year, i think that the pace in the races that frontrunners were winning were by and large conducive for speed holding. I found that the fractions of the race were dictating the outcome far more than the course itself.

maybe i just don't see it the same way, because when i went there this summer during rainy days, i found speed to be the way to win of the day.

i've just always had a very very difficult time finding any noticeable or playable track bias at arlington over any long-term period of time.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't think they know Belmont anymore then they know Arlington. Churchill I agree with because everyone watchs the Kentucky Derby, even my mom who is anti-horse racing.

It ties in with the Triple Crown the Belmont Stakes, Belmont is more widely known, no question...I have never been there, but Belmont's favorite track overall...They should have the big races at big time tracks that can accomodate everyone...How was the BC when it was at AP? Was it over crowded, long lines...I went to the one at Lone Star and it was a nightmare, nice little track, but they had no business trying to accomodate that many people...When I went to the BC at CD, it was no problem, plenty of room, small lines...

[boswd]

I think the best sceniero , though it will never happen, Is the NTRA build a track in a neutral warm location that would play permanant host to the Breeders Cup. Have the BC to be ran in December so there is plenty of time after the major meets are over and maybe we will have better and bigger fields throughout the year at the big races.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

It ties in with the Triple Crown the Belmont Stakes, Belmont is more widely known, no question...I have never been there, but Belmont's favorite track overall...They should have the big races at big time tracks that can accomodate everyone...How was the BC when it was at AP? Was it over crowded, long lines...I went to the one at Lone Star and it was a nightmare, nice little track, but they had no business trying to accomodate that many people...When I went to the BC at CD, it was no problem, plenty of room, small lines...

Pimilco is part of the Triple Crown and people don't know that. and that weekend is known as the biggest party on earth....

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

It ties in with the Triple Crown the Belmont Stakes, Belmont is more widely known, no question...I have never been there, but Belmont's favorite track overall...They should have the big races at big time tracks that can accomodate everyone...How was the BC when it was at AP? Was it over crowded, long lines...I went to the one at Lone Star and it was a nightmare, nice little track, but they had no business trying to accomodate that many people...When I went to the BC at CD, it was no problem, plenty of room, small lines...

I couldn't agree more, it's going to be a nightmare at Monmouth as well.

[Pedigree Ann]

Belmont isn't the greatest place to have the BC races because of its one-turn configuration for many of the races, much different from what most of the competitors are used to. Didn't they have it at Aqueduct one year? That's a track that is fairer to 2-turn horses from all over the country. Turf course isn't as nice as Belmont, but most of the races are on dirt. And they should shorten the Juvenile races to 8f on 9f tracks, like they did at Hollywood the first year it was run. No need to stress immature joints by running around two turn so young.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Scav

Don't knock it until you see it. It might not have the smell of a huge racetrack, but there isn't a better built, nicer track in the country.....

I heard Arlington is beutiful too but the nicest track in the country. matter of opinon. It may be the Camden Yards of race tracks but I would take Fenway and Wrigley over Camden any day. In this baseball analogy it would Keeneland and Saratoga.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Belmont isn't the greatest place to have the BC races because of its one-turn configuration for many of the races, much different from what most of the competitors are used to. Didn't they have it at Aqueduct one year? That's a track that is fairer to 2-turn horses from all over the country. Turf course isn't as nice as Belmont, but most of the races are on dirt. And they should shorten the Juvenile races to 8f on 9f tracks, like they did at Hollywood the first year it was run. No need to stress immature joints by running around two turn so young.

Tiznow and Sakhee weren't based at BEL and they ran well at BEL...

I agree about the 2yo races, that's another reason AP should never have it, because of what happened to the 2yo's that came out of those races...SFF came back, but it took her awhile...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

I agree about the 2yo races, that's another reason AP should never have it, because of what happened to the 2yo's that came out of those races...SFF came back, but it took her awhile...

really though, that's all speculation. could have happened at churchill too if we're going to blame two turns for horses not coming back soon.

that claim is wild and out there, think of ALL the two-turn preps and maiden races and allowance races that 2yo horses run in -- two turns at arglinton is no different than two turns anywhere else.

I was born and raised in the New York Metropolitan Area. I saw inperson every major star from Seattle Slew to Bernardini. I could make a list of faults regarding this track and I would need more than my ten fingers. Belmont lovers should not cast stones at tracks like Arlington, Woodbine, Gulfstream, and Monmouth. P.S. I was at the Aqueduct Breeders' Cup; it is also not perfect.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

really though, that's all speculation. could have happened at churchill too if we're going to blame two turns for horses not coming back soon.

that claim is wild and out there, think of ALL the two-turn preps and maiden races and allowance races that 2yo horses run in -- two turns at arglinton is no different than two turns anywhere else.

Those races were at 1 1/8th that's way too far for a 2yo to run against top company at that time...I don't think it's a coincidence that most never ran again or that they were never themselves after that run at AP...I know you're a homer, but can you tell me another Juvy where the runners came back either retired or less than their best...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Those races were at 1 1/8th that's way too far for a 2yo to run against top company at that time...I don't think it's a coincidence that most never ran again or that they were never themselves after that run at AP...I know you're a homer, but can you tell me another Juvy where the runners came back either retired or less than their best...

true, in my memory as a racing fan, (albeit only about an 8 year memory ), there has not been a crop like that coming out of a juvy BC race -- it's still going to be one of those things that could very possibly be coincidence.

if the juvy runners came out of AP so badly, you would expect runners across the board to come out of it very poorly -- as juvy runners come out of it fine at other tracks when older horses come out of it fine as well.

i just think it's a little bit of a reach, homer or not, to say it's the track for sure when no other dirt horses seemed to have a problem coming out it any more than they would from any other BC race.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

true, in my memory as a racing fan, (albeit only about an 8 year memory ), there has not been a crop like that coming out of a juvy BC race -- it's still going to be one of those things that could very possibly be coincidence.

if the juvy runners came out of AP so badly, you would expect runners across the board to come out of it very poorly -- as juvy runners come out of it fine at other tracks when older horses come out of it fine as well.

i just think it's a little bit of a reach, homer or not, to say it's the track for sure when no other dirt horses seemed to have a problem coming out it any more than they would from any other BC race.

You can't compare 2yo's to fully developed horses, it's not the same thing, that's too far for them at that point in their careers, it wasn't the surface, it was the distance, it was the 1st time the Juvy had been run at 1 1/8th and it proved to be disasterous....

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Those races were at 1 1/8th that's way too far for a 2yo to run against top company at that time...I don't think it's a coincidence that most never ran again or that they were never themselves after that run at AP...I know you're a homer, but can you tell me another Juvy where the runners came back either retired or less than their best...

and in addition, if 1 1/8 is too far, then 1 1/16 is too far every other BC. i can't find a way to believe that the extra 7 seconds of running somehow shattered the futures of every horse in there. i'd be more apt to talk about the horses than the tracks.

Horse racing desperately needs to try different things to reach the masses. For example, I think it would be really neat if Churchill booked Jessica Simpson to walk in the post parade right next to Bernardini and sing Irresistible. Something like this would grab the attention span of a target market that spends lots of money on text messages and ringtones. Maybe they'll spend a few dollars on the ponies if they see Jessica giving her stamp of approval.

Isn't the Remsen in November at Aqueduct run at nine furlongs? Vindication got hurt in a workout; he was not reported injured in his race.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Horse racing desperately needs to try different things to reach the masses. For example, I think it would be really neat if Churchill booked Jessica Simpson to walk in the post parade right next to Bernardini and sing Irresistible. Something like this would grab the attention span of a target market that spends lots of money on text messages and ringtones. Maybe they'll spend a few dollars on the ponies if they see Jessica giving her stamp of approval.

i love that idea -- popstars in platform shoes getting necked by star horses in the post parade while belting radio smash hits on a wireless microphone.

you're on to something.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

i love that idea -- popstars in platform shoes getting necked by star horses in the post parade while belting radio smash hits on a wireless microphone.

you're on to something.

And really with a star like Jessica Simpson the risk isn't as high. So what if she gets kicked in the head by a horse? It might knock some sense into her.