I Think Barbaro Should Be Put Down

[Danzig]

here, i did a search.....

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002414.htm

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

here, i did a search.....

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002414.htm

Thanks, Danzig! Very interesting.
(GR raises hand)
So, it's added to feed to try to prevent gastro-intestinal disorders? I see now what it does for (and to) humans, but how, specifically, does it benefit/adversely affect the equine?

[Danzig]

did another search.....

http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/s...cle.cfm?id=181

[Danzig]

in a nutshell...


Clinically, selenium deficient horses will often 'tie-up,' a degenerative condition of the
muscles also known as rhabdomyolysis," says Dr. Scoggins. "It can affect the heart muscle,
the muscles of respiration, as well as the large muscles of the

back and limbs. It can also cause a decrease in the efficiency of the immune system, leading
to opportunistic infections."

A horse that has rhabdomyolosis will have severe muscle cramps resulting in sweating,
stiffness, and increased pulse. The breakdown of muscle cells can result in coffee-colored
urine. "Do not walk a horse that is tied up," stresses Dr. Scoggins.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

in a nutshell...


Clinically, selenium deficient horses will often 'tie-up,' a degenerative condition of the
muscles also known as rhabdomyolysis," says Dr. Scoggins. "It can affect the heart muscle,
the muscles of respiration, as well as the large muscles of the

back and limbs. It can also cause a decrease in the efficiency of the immune system, leading
to opportunistic infections."

A horse that has rhabdomyolosis will have severe muscle cramps resulting in sweating,
stiffness, and increased pulse. The breakdown of muscle cells can result in coffee-colored
urine. "Do not walk a horse that is tied up," stresses Dr. Scoggins.

That's REALLY interesting (I am always fascinated how different minerals and vitamins affect the body's workings). Thank you!

So if you shouldn't walk a horse that is tied up, what should one do?... Wait, I should go read the second article myself, huh? I'll go do that now.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

That's REALLY interesting (I am always fascinated how different minerals and vitamins affect the body's workings). Thank you!

So if you shouldn't walk a horse that is tied up, what should one do?... Wait, I should go read the second article myself, huh? I'll go do that now.

i don't think it says what you should do....

fluids and a blanket for starters i'd imagine. and call the vet.

back to google...

[Danzig]

Tying Up
PREPARED BY: Cheryl Sutor [1998]


The following list contains the possible symptoms of Tying Up. Tying up is usually exercise-related. Symptoms below are most likely to appear within the first 1/2 hour of work. Some horses may not exhibit all symptoms. Tying up seems to be more common in young Quarter Horses and Thoroughbreds who are either not fit or high strung, however, it can occur in any breed.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most common symptoms:
Obvious discomfort
Abnormally short strides, muscle stiffness
Difficulty in movement. Horse may refuse to move
Muscle hardening/contracting with hindquarter spasms, mostly in croup area
Elevated pulse & respiration

Possible additional symptoms:
Flaring of the nostrils
Slow capillary refill time
Pawing
Pale gums
Sweating
Short, stiff gait
Brown colored urine


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Management of Tying Up

Call your veterinarian immediately. Ask the veterinarian if you should administer any treatment prior to his arrival. Ask what you may do to comfort your horse until he arrives.

Do NOT move your horse! Moving your horse even a few steps may make the condition even worse. However, you do want to keep him on his feet.

Protect the horse from chills by using a blanket.

Encourage the horse to drink, it will help flush his kidneys of waste.

Why do horses become Tied-up?

A horse becomes tied-up when his muscles have been overworked. The muscles become damaged from toxic by-products that are produced during the work. These toxic by-products are produced from the blood's inability to carry enough oxygen to the muscles. High glycogen content and abnormal polysaccharide in the muscles. Sometimes, defective calcium regulation. When a horse ties up repeatedly, it may lead to kidney damage.

What can you do to prevent Tying-up?

Feed a low or no-carbohydrate diet with high fat. Warm up and cool down your horse properly with at least 15 minutes of walking. Don't exercise the horse to a point where it is stressful. Provide turnout as often as possible.

[paisjpq]

hey GR...Danzig pretty much covered it but since I know you like to know stuff...read this one...why tying up used to be called 'monday morning sickness'
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/horse_talk/61483

the trainers here could probably tell stories about 2 YO fillies that tie up...for some reason the high strung girls do it a lot...
yearling fillies like to do it at the sales too...when they did it was usually mild, we'd give them some bute paste, a little Ace to relax them, and some electrolytes...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

A little trivia...another name for tying up is azoturia. I used to have to know all of this stuff for all of those competitions that I went to as a youth. I can't believe I still remember some of it...lol.

[Cajungator26]

When we supplemented selenium, we supplemented vitamin E at the same time. I can't tell you why (it's been way too long ), but I remember it had something to do with an inbalance if you didn't. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm getting too old. LOL

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

When we supplemented selenium, we supplemented vitamin E at the same time. I can't tell you why (it's been way too long ), but I remember it had something to do with an inbalance if you didn't. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm getting too old. LOL

has to do with bio-availability...but I'm getting old too...i can't remember exactly...one limits the uptake of the other if i remember right...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Completely disagree. The idea that a person can't have opinion on this b/c I'm they aren't there giving him a carrot every day or seeing in his stall is ridiculous. Mind you this is 8 months after the initial injury. Quite a bit is known about his day to day condition, the extent of the laminitis he suffered and the never ending surgeries he's had....And the idea that Barbaro has been the perfect guinea pig for advancing knowledge is a piss poor decision to keep a horse bouncing around from one setback to the next until he is put down....At this point, the decision is clear and my guess is they will realize that in the not too distant future.

I never said that you could not have an opinion just that yours as well as all of us here were not 'qualified' opinions.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Randall, I'm glad u started this. As someone else mentioned, it took courage to do it. I have been thinking the same thing but never thought to post it because I know how the Barbaro fans are about this horse. I do agree with u totally, especially when u talk about how it's unfair how they are so concerned with him but not the $5k claimer that this happens to. I read about how his owners deserve some special Eclipse awards and all that and it sickens me. They don't deserve anything more special than anyone else that puts their heart and money into it and loses a horse to fatal injury.

It takes zero courage to offer an opinion on an internet message board.
Comparing the KY derby winner and a 5 claimer seems a bit stupid. And dont give me all that crap about they are all God's creatures. That these people have choosen to try to save the horse surely is not a negative thing.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

When we supplemented selenium, we supplemented vitamin E at the same time. I can't tell you why (it's been way too long ), but I remember it had something to do with an inbalance if you didn't. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm getting too old. LOL

You're pretty much right. You usually have to supplement selenium in cases of white muscle disease, azoturia...etc. Vitamin E and selenium work together, and are used especially in the treatment of white muscle disease in foals. Vitamin E prevents the breakdown of cells, and selenium aids in the absorption of vitamin E through the tissues.

I must say that this is probably the most civilized discussion of Barbaro's potential fate I have seen-- I'm impressed! It's hard not to get carried away with emotions, no matter which side you're on... no one wants to see this horse suffer, but then again, the horse deserves every fighting chance at a decent life.

I hope Barbaro doesn't have to be euthanized, and as of now I trust that if he hasn't been put down, there is a good reason for it. However, if he does have to be put down, I also understand that there was also a valid reason for doing so. I have never seen the colt in person so I don't feel comfortable saying what should or should not happen to him; like I said, I'm trusting the judgement of those who are around him day in and day out. Each day that I check all the horse racing websites and see that Barbaro is still alive and well, I'm happy.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Right, but it's a decent indication from my experience. I think it's a very hard decision either way and actually maybe more difficult for the owners to keep him alive seeing him go through the surgeries. But if the horse keeps fighting, why not let him fight?

Randalll, your heart is in the right place but trust me on thisl, you DO know if they've given up. Horse's absolutely won't eat if they are sick or suffering, that is exactly one of the ways we gauge their general outlook. My horse Rhage suffered a severe case of Laminitis and had to have the very same surgery Barbaro did, it was awful getting to that point and seeing her in such intense pain, and if she had shown me at anytime that she was suffering I lover her enough to have let go, but she had a brightness in her eyes and was so accomodating that even the Vets remarked how intelligent she was to help them help her. 16 months later after numerous xrays, foot wrappings, pain medications, and intense ups and downs, she is now able to lead a normal life, her foot will never look the same, as will Barbaro's, but she's alive, happy and deserving of every attempt to save her. In fact I just came in the house from feeding her and she ran up to me bucking, kicking and squealing with anticipation for her carrots.!

I trust the people close to Barbaro, who know him inside and out, and love him, will not let him suffer.

[sham]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Randalll, your heart is in the right place but trust me on thisl, you DO know if they've given up. Horse's absolutely won't eat if they are sick or suffering, that is exactly one of the ways we gauge their general outlook. My horse Rhage suffered a severe case of Laminitis and had to have the very same surgery Barbaro did, it was awful getting to that point and seeing her in such intense pain, and if she had shown me at anytime that she was suffering I lover her enough to have let go, but she had a brightness in her eyes and was so accomodating that even the Vets remarked how intelligent she was to help them help her. 16 months later after numerous xrays, foot wrappings, pain medications, and intense ups and downs, she is now able to lead a normal life, her foot will never look the same, as will Barbaro's, but she's alive, happy and deserving of every attempt to save her. In fact I just came in the house from feeding her and she ran up to me bucking, kicking and squealing with anticipation for her carrots.!

I trust the people close to Barbaro, who know him inside and out, and love him, will not let him suffer.

Wonderful post. Thank you and congrats on your mare getting well. Hopefully Barbaro will get there too.

[largo1]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

has to do with bio-availability...but I'm getting old too...i can't remember exactly...one limits the uptake of the other if i remember right...

Vitamin E deficiency lowers selenium absorption and utilization which is why many selenium supplements also contain Vit. E. Unfortunately, unless the Vit E has been stabilized, it only has a shelf life of a couple weeks.

Suzanne(WHY do I know this???)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by largo1

Vitamin E deficiency lowers selenium absorption and utilization which is why many selenium supplements also contain Vit. E. Unfortunately, unless the Vit E has been stabilized, it only has a shelf life of a couple weeks.

Suzanne(WHY do I know this???)

lol

yeah, i ask myself that about trivia. hell, i can name every king and queen of england in chronological order from william the conqueror. yet it doesn't pay the bills.....

[GenuineRisk]

Danzig and Paisjpg, thanks for the links-- I logged off yesterday morning and didn't get back online until this morning, so I just read them all. Very interesting stuff. It IS funny what our minds choose to retain, isn't it?

News is better on Mr. B this morning:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37086