What Will Be Obvious After Tonite

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Poor decisions? How about living in trailers in twister country? Huh? Why don't we just ignore their problems too? That's Socialism(helping them.)Geedubbya got real generous when he saw their torn up trailers.All the sudden he turned a part-time Socialist and said "The Government can help too." Capitalism would be to round them up,and tell them they are now fkd.Time to rake leafs for your rich doctor dad......Hurry up,two or three people on this block need leafs raked up.

What did you do to help the victims of Katrina out? When Hurricane Katrina hit, I did as much charity work as I possibly could at the time. My honor club at my college got as many toys and goods (food etc.) as we possibly could to send to them. I think the federal government should donate money to organizations to help people because the organizations will most likely know how to distribute the funds better. I don't have a problem with that when a natural disaster occurs. I don't think the government should directly give money to the people. I have no problem in giving people money that deserve it. It's just there are a lot of people that don't deserve it. People that need to get off their asses, work, and make better decisions (i.e. universal health care and welfare)

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Pretty much the same(or more) # of doctors/1000 people in countries like Germany,France, Sweden,and Switzerland.I'll take a nurse with extra training over an ass-hole doctor any day.

I'm sure that nurse could perform surgery too.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Pretty much the same(or more) # of doctors/1000 people in countries like Germany,France, Sweden,and Switzerland.I'll take a nurse with extra training over an ass-hole doctor any day.

By the way, my mom's a nurse, my uncle's a nurse, my aunt's a nurse, my step-mom is a nurse...etc.

Their lives would be made more of a hell through universal health care as well! They work hard enough as it is...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Why isn't it? Do you think people in Japan,France,Germany,Sweden,Switzerland,Australia have bad healthcare? I don't .We are brainwashed to think they do.Again,Danzig,I highly doubt this insurance plan will cover something like a years stay in the hospital,and some people have kids that are that sick.It doesn't always happen to other people.Americans have this disease of "it will not happen to me" That is why people lose everything right now.They didn't think they were gunna have a kid who would spend a year and a half in the hospital(and die anyways.)They didn't think that their insurance would stop paying.They didn't want national healthcare, either.Now they are fkd,too.So be it(I guess.)We are just too stupid to do what other industrialized countries have done.

i don't think it's the governments job to provide health care. i don't think it's the govts job to provide many of the things it provides already. but states have turned over much of what they used to, or should provide now, to the feds as they don't want to foot the bill. so then the federal govt gets far more bloated then it should be. it's not a federal issue. but then, social security, medicare, medicaid, etc shouldn't be either.
people want to keep talking about the health ins problem when in fact those who can't afford coverage are already eligible for medicare or medicaid. the trick is that many who CAN afford coverage, don't want to afford it. they want the 'govt' to foot the bill. but the 'govt' doesn't foot the bill, we do. i pay for my own yet still pay for so many others...now my bill should get that much bigger?

i don't believe it is the govts job to take care of us. i don't want the govt in my life to that extent. i want them involved in my life, and my pocketbook, as little as possible.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

What did you do to help the victims of Katrina out? When Hurricane Katrina hit, I did as much charity work as I possibly could at the time. My honor club at my college got as many toys and goods (food etc.) as we possibly could to send to them. I think the federal government should donate money to organizations to help people because the organizations will most likely know how to distribute the funds better. I don't have a problem with that when a natural disaster occurs. I don't think the government should directly give money to the people. I have no problem in giving people money that deserve it. It's just there are a lot of people that don't deserve it. People that need to get off their asses, work, and make better decisions (i.e. universal health care and welfare)

Conservatives always love private charities.It's a way to say "I hate the Government.I hate to pay my taxes." Here is a cracker...Get better.It's a way to deal with the guilt from knowing your a selfish bitch.Almost all people who are for the tax cuts for the rich are huge fans of private charities.Makes them feel better even though they know inside just how selfish they are.If you gave a **** about those people in Katrina,then they would of had National Healthcare.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Conservatives always love private charities.It's a way to say "I hate the Government.I hate to pay my taxes." Here is a cracker...Get better.It's a way to deal with the guilt from knowing your a selfish bitch.Almost all people who are for the tax cuts for the rich are huge fans of private charities.Makes them feel better even though they know inside just how selfish they are.If you gave a **** about those people in Katrina,then they would of had National Healthcare.

Most of them had/have medicaid.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Conservatives always love private charities.It's a way to say "I hate the Government.I hate to pay my taxes." Here is a cracker...Get better.It's a way to deal with the guilt from knowing your a selfish bitch.Almost all people who are for the tax cuts for the rich are huge fans of private charities.Makes them feel better even though they know inside just how selfish they are.If you gave a **** about those people in Katrina,then they would of had National Healthcare.

I don't get tax cuts from what I donated because I don't work right now.

And I think the selfish thing is the other way around. I think it is selfish to ask hard working American people to pay more in taxes so those who haven't worked enough in life or made poor decisions can have universal health care.

How would Universal Health Care have helped them rebuild their homes? That has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Again, you didn't do any volunteer work for the Katrina victims I take it. I not only gave my money, but I gave my time as well.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think it's the governments job to provide health care. i don't think it's the govts job to provide many of the things it provides already. but states have turned over much of what they used to, or should provide now, to the feds as they don't want to foot the bill. so then the federal govt gets far more bloated then it should be. it's not a federal issue. but then, social security, medicare, medicaid, etc shouldn't be either.
people want to keep talking about the health ins problem when in fact those who can't afford coverage are already eligible for medicare or medicaid. the trick is that many who CAN afford coverage, don't want to afford it. they want the 'govt' to foot the bill. but the 'govt' doesn't foot the bill, we do. i pay for my own yet still pay for so many others...now my bill should get that much bigger?

i don't believe it is the govts job to take care of us. i don't want the govt in my life to that extent. i want them involved in my life, and my pocketbook, as little as possible.

Fine,but fk those hillbillies in trailers that got run over in twisters.Just be consistent.That was catastrophic damage,,and so is somebody bankrupt with a 500k medical bill that they thought their insurance was gunna cover.Just don't come running to the Gov't when you get into trouble.Geedubbya feels the same as you,but couldn't wait to tell those hillbillies they were gunna get Gov't help.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Most of them had/have medicaid.

I thought that you were a Republican?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Most of them had/have medicaid.

Not people working paycheck to paycheck(and using every penny for bills.)The kinds of people Danzig and Romney think are partying away drinking 40 ounce malt liquor instead of buying healthcare.Fact is they probably needed every bit to pay their bills.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

A lot of you consider yourself Christians (even if you don't attend church regularly.)I just want to say that Christ said it's pretty important how you treat the least among you.The least wasteful way to do that is National Healthcare.Nobody is gunna buy crack with it.Nobody is gunna be acting lazy while doing it(they have to get up and go to the doctor.)Nobody is gunna want to use it.They will use it when they have to.It's a lot better than giving checks out to be used in any way they want.There are only 2 reasons to be against it:

1)selfishnous

2)dislike of the poor

Like I said,it's a predominantly Christian country,.So,it would appear people simply ignore their own religion.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Fine,but fk those hillbillies in trailers that got run over in twisters.Just be consistent.That was catastrophic damage,,and so is somebody bankrupt with a 500k medical bill that they thought their insurance was gunna cover.Just don't come running to the Gov't when you get into trouble.Geedubbya feels the same as you,but couldn't wait to tell those hillbillies they were gunna get Gov't help.

i've never asked the govt, or anyone else for that matter, for help.

my point is that the FEDERAL govt does not exist for much of what it has been forced to take on-the states should be providing their citizens for much of what the feds provide. the reason there is so much fraud and waste in many of these federal programs is that too much of the country is too far from d.c., and the further from that seat you are, the more problems you encounter with these programs.
each state should bear the burden for any of these programs. that way you don't have the issues you have right now with homeland security for instance. federal dollars were released to help states with security issues. we all should acknowledge that some areas would be considered more of a target then others. yet small states want the money divided evenly. how does that make sense?
the Feds should protect our borders with mexico and canada, and our ports. other than that, it should be a state by state issue issue. but again, state govts push much of their responsibility onto the feds, bloating our federal govt, and taking more of our taxes for them-then the states can't help if they want.
arkansas has arkids first, and it's a pretty good program. but it also explains why our tax burden is so high here in arkansas. we're still paying for fed programs as well. over ten cents on the dollar sales tax here, with state income tax--and there had been a surplus tax tacked onto that for years (thanks to 'lower tax' huckabee ) and also a personal property tax. and the sales tax is applied even to food and medicine. it's ridiculous.

don't you feel that much of what the feds attempt to do would work much better, if done state by state? less red tape, less administration, as those offices would be local, with no regional and national offices necessary?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

A lot of you consider yourself Christians (even if you don't attend church regularly.)I just want to say that Christ said it's pretty important how you treat the least among you.The least wasteful way to do that is National Healthcare.Nobody is gunna buy crack with it.Nobody is gunna be acting lazy while doing it(they have to get up and go to the doctor.)Nobody is gunna want to use it.They will use it when they have to.It's a lot better than giving checks out to be used in any way they want.There are only 2 reasons to be against it:

1)selfishnous

2)dislike of the poor

Like I said,it's a predominantly Christian country,.So,it would appear people simply ignore their own religion.

i think you've gone on a tangent with this post. and this type of argument reminds me of the typical 'if you don't like ___, then leave the country'...or when a program looks like it won't pass, so people are accused of not wanting to help the children. or when bush said if you're not for it, you're against it. but then you also argue that if someone questions polytrack, they don't care about a horses safety, so at least you're consistent.

like i said, posts ago, no doubt improvements could be made. i just don't think a national healthcare system as proposed by hillary would be a solution. i would rather see a solution to the problem, then a program along the lines of social security.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

No, it shouldn't be we the people's job to pay more taxes for those individuals that made poor decisions or are lazy. I shouldn't be punished for that because that is exactly what universal health care would be for me and many other Americans. And it's not doctors' faults. It is the big corporations, big pharma, and the insurance companies in general. That part of the system is what needs to be changed. Go after them. Not the American people and the doctors. Universal health care=taxes raised for everyone. The doctors only try to do their jobs.

So, I told you how much my dad and boyfriend work. How much are they supposed to work to see everyone in a timely fashion with universal health care? THERE AREN'T ENOUGH HOURS IN A DAY OR ENOUGH DOCTORS TO GO AROUND!!!

I do care. I care a lot. So much that I just donated some money that I don't have to feed starving people around the country. It was my choice. But, it shouldn't be everyone else's responsibility to make up for others who are not responsible. They shouldn't be made to do it. The American people should be able to choose what charity work that they want to do. I shouldn't have to be made to pay for some lazy, irresponsible *******'s health coverage or some rapist's health coverage.

actually, health care probably could be paid for with what we already pay to the govt. other programs would have to be cut. IF they did come up with a viable health care plan, medicaid/medicare would no longer be necessary (i'd assume)...and it would be nice if pols would put the necessities of life first, and maybe cut the foreign aid budget, or bs pork barrely spending for their home states. once upon a time, afghanistan got more of our money than any other foreign country--an attempt by us to buy favor. that worked well.....

i read an article the other day that talked about our military budget. it's astronomical. of course i always knew it was fairly high...but it compared what we spent to our next closest 'competitor', china. the gap between us and them is beyond huge. and a lot of that is wasteful--look at the v-2 osprey program. no telling how much that has cost over the years, and the damned thing still doesn't work right.

but it's a pipe dream to think that taxes wouldn't go up tremendously to fund national healthcare. and who will get stuck holding the tab yet again? those of us in the middle class, as always. and then the middle class gets accused of being selfish, while footing the majority of every bill the 'govt' pays.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Not people working paycheck to paycheck(and using every penny for bills.)The kinds of people Danzig and Romney think are partying away drinking 40 ounce malt liquor instead of buying healthcare.Fact is they probably needed every bit to pay their bills.

tony and i were like that for years. we struggled for a long time after we got married. money was tight, paycheck to paycheck just like you wrote. but we had insurance. it was never given a second thought, and never considered as anything other than an absolute necessity.
you hear a lot of talk about those withou coverage--but how many of the people without coverage truly have no alternative? how many without private insurance are covered thru the medical plans already in place?

[Mortimer]

^^^MILT site shut down.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think you've gone on a tangent with this post. and this type of argument reminds me of the typical 'if you don't like ___, then leave the country'...or when a program looks like it won't pass, so people are accused of not wanting to help the children. or when bush said if you're not for it, you're against it. but then you also argue that if someone questions polytrack, they don't care about a horses safety, so at least you're consistent.

like i said, posts ago, no doubt improvements could be made. i just don't think a national healthcare system as proposed by hillary would be a solution. i would rather see a solution to the problem, then a program along the lines of social security.

Well,I don't even know if it implies to you(Christianity.) I do think people who are against universal healthcare are against it due to the 2 reasons I mentioned(don't like the poor,or are simply selfish.)Christ warned against both.The reason I bring it up is because this religion is constantly brought up during an election year.I just think people accent only the parts of the religion they like.I think people against universal healthcare are on the exact opposite side Christ would take(based on pretty much everything he said.)Really though......o.k.,look,we are paying twice as much per person(compared to other industrialized nations) for our care.Do you really think we are getting our moneysworth here?If it's not all mainly due to lawsuits,and defensive medicine,or waiting lists (in other countries)then we have a huge problem here.There is no way this hi cost of care can continue.Regardless of whether we have universal care or not,we have to start spending what other countries do per person(half what we spend.) It's not a choice.Baby boomers are gunna start retiring.The price of medical care will have to be controlled.There simply won't be enough people paying payroll taxes to keep up with the medical costs of the country.It doesn't add up.They aren't gunna raise taxes on the wealthy.So,what are they gunna do?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well,I don't even know if it implies to you(Christianity.) I do think people who are against universal healthcare are against it due to the 2 reasons I mentioned(don't like the poor,or are simply selfish.)Christ warned against both.The reason I bring it up is because this religion is constantly brought up during an election year.I just think people accent only the parts of the religion they like.I think people against universal healthcare are on the exact opposite side Christ would take(based on pretty much everything he said.)Really though......o.k.,look,we are paying twice as much per person(compared to other industrialized nations) for our care.Do you really think we are getting our moneysworth here?If it's not all mainly due to lawsuits,and defensive medicine,or waiting lists (in other countries)then we have a huge problem here.There is no way this hi cost of care can continue.Regardless of whether we have universal care or not,we have to start spending what other countries do per person(half what we spend.) It's not a choice.Baby boomers are gunna start retiring.The price of medical care will have to be controlled.There simply won't be enough people paying payroll taxes to keep up with the medical costs of the country.It doesn't add up.They aren't gunna raise taxes on the wealthy.So,what are they gunna do?

People bitch about the teachers' union. The most destructive union in the world is the AMA. They have successfully blocked every and all attempt not just at universal care but any kind of reform. The bigger problem is HC reform .... how care is delievered and what happens to that point.

The AMA limits med school entrants, then encourages people to quit during residency. Choke down the supply of doctors, and ensure that their costs remain high. They limit the number of jobs (even routine work) that can be done by non-doctors.

Most important, the AMA insists on self-policing, and has a code of silence, even for incompetents.

Guaranteed jobs for doctors, and screw the public good.

A book I have, written by a guy named Coddington called The Crisis in Health Care: Costs, Choices, and Strategies, predicted these outcomes under our market-based system:

More than 40 million uninsured
Continued gaps in safety net coverage
Double-digit health plan rate increases
Smaller employers cutting coverage or even dropping health plans
Increased co-payments and deductibles for employees
Large rate increases for private insurers in shrinking markets
Numerous failures of HMOs and withdrawal from the market by larger insurance companies
Continued cost shifting in an increasingly fragmented market
Continued inflation of health care costs

This book was written in the late 70's.

There is only one way to move toward universal HC and that is to open Medicaid/Medicare to buy-ins. But the stakeholders, especially the AMA are not going to let this happen until their last ounce of blood gets spilled. They have too much at stake. Why would they give it up willingly? Of course they won't.

The insurance companies are not the true bad guy here. The AMA is.

You won't see univ HC until these two things happen:
1. The US public becomes far less tolerant of the uninsured issue than it is now.
2. You bust the AMA.

F'k all the doctors and med students who moan about working 60 hour weeks to support their family and because their job demands it. Bullshit. Lots of people work big hours. You do what you need to do to be successful.

And double F'k the ones who cry about their student loans.

good luck.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I think the whole thing about a shortage of doctors is total bullshit.If you get the AMA to stop artificially limiting the number of doctors,then there would never be a shortage.They've worked so hard to make it a glamour job that it would take generations before people stopped wanting to be doctors.Look at these other European Countries(with national care.)They have the same (or more) # of doctors/1000 people.She is full of ****,and lies.Other than in the E.R.,and Surgery,we don't need all these doctors.You probably get touched more in a 1 night stand than you do by all the doctors you've ever seen in examining rooms.Give nurses specialized training,and let these greedy people go into designing video games.Start with these Psychiatrists that are bolted to these chairs behind the desk.Any nurse (with a Psychiatrist in charge of them) could do what these "doctors" do.