The sad cost of war

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

That can't be true..he's a communist

Its not true but never let facts get in the way of a good story

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

"The unemployment rate fell to 9.4 percent as the U.S. economy shed 247,000 jobs in July, the government announced on Friday morning. The drop -- the first in 15 months -- comes as a surprise; economists had expected the rate to rise to as high as 9.7 percent.

By a broader measure that includes people who've given up looking for work or who can't find full-time jobs, the unemployment rate fell to 16.3 percent, down from 16.5 percent in June."


'Zig, read this synopsis of the major economic indicators this guy has cobbled from Bloomberg, etc. We're not out, by any means, and won't be soon, but we are standing back from the precipice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-s..._b_254600.html

The definition of a good week certainly has changed. Yeah we only lost a quarter of a million jobs last month! But thats better than last month!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works

So....why don't you critique what the great one has done so far.....try balancing the book also!

[Danzig]

i'm not quite sure how this thread got off on the tangent it did...but i went to factcheck.org to see if they had anything on obama's great health care plan, and whether it would add to our already incredibly bloated deficit. it does:


http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/oba...ws-conference/


■Obama promised once again that a health care overhaul “will be paid for.” But congressional budget experts say the bills they’ve seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade.


and as for his overall budget? ~■Obama claimed his budget "reduced federal spending over the next 10 years by $2.2 trillion" compared with where it was headed before. Not true. Even figures from his own budget experts don’t support that. The Congressional Budget Office projects a $2.7 trillion increase, not a $2.2 trillion cut.


so, if obama has great ideas, fine. if he turns out to be a great president-wonderful. but MY beef with him is his spending, and the above shows why i'm concerned. i don't give a damn what party he belongs to, i don't care about his ability to give good speech. but all i've seen from his treasury secretary and from economists is that our economy will not do well, will continue to take blow after blow, if our deficit isn't brought under control. yet our president wants to spend even more that we don't have.

[Danzig]

and here's this, on the stimulus spending, from a few months back:


http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/mak...ulus-spending/


~The Obama team originally estimated, for example, that unless a stimulus plan was enacted, the unemployment rate would reach nearly 9 percent sometime in the first three months of next year....


...But as things have turned out, even with the big spending package in place, the jobless rate shot up to 9.4 percent in May, according to the most recent figures from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You really need to get a grip on what's really happening out there, and not what Glenn Beck is screeching about.

There is no "citizens reporting on each other".

The only bullies at town halls are the rowdy people yelling and taking over the town hall and preventing everyone else from talking. They are the ones suppressing free speech.

The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's.

When did Pelosi switch to the ultra right? She's the one using the word Nazi as did Durbin describing our soilders at Gitmo. No Riot is wrong again as usual unless the video and audio were photo-shopped.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...astikas .html

[dellinger63]

and the bullies I'm talking about were on Obama's side not the old, well dressed shills turning up at these meetings who you seem to think of as far right wingnuts.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The definition of a good week certainly has changed. Yeah we only lost a quarter of a million jobs last month! But thats better than last month!

??? Yes, the definition of a good week is changed when we're in a recession.

Yes, the job loss rate is slowing, and appears to be topping out. If you bother to look at that article I posted, containing charts and graphs of the past months/years in multiple categories, we can discuss those facts, rather than off-the-cuff emotional comments.

You'll see what has been happening to the measures of manufacturing, personal spending, jobless rate, employment - all appear to be stabilizing. That's good. Very good.

Much better than being in a depression, or a deeping recession.

Bush didn't do anything (hands off approach) and the recession worsened until it was about to drop off the cliff into depression. The initial implementation of the stimulus package (the majority of it not yet in place) - an idea supported by most, yes MOST independent and major economists - appears indeed to have slowed the recession, preventing us from going into a depression.

Of course, that could have just been "chance and good luck", too.

Of course I know that the new administration was supposed to get us into a period of rapid, sustained growth inside a month or two, immediately turning everything around, and as that hasn't happened yet, the new administration is a failure. LOL.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

When did Pelosi switch to the ultra right? She's the one using the word Nazi as did Durbin describing our soilders at Gitmo. No Riot is wrong again as usual unless the video and audio were photo-shopped.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...astikas .html

??? What are you talking about now?

You said:
"The hypocrisy of thinking anyone opposing this [healthcare reform] is a shill, Nazi etc. and then trying to suppress free speech and assembly by having citizens report on each other and using bullies at town meetings has been especially enjoyable."

So if you could show something that shows that people opposing healthcare reform are being called Nazi's, that would support your statement.

From what I see, there's no support for your statement at all. The few people televised or photographed or videotaped using the word Nazi seem to be those opposing the healthcare plan, and they are calling the President of the United States a Nazi.

Which is beyond absurd, aside from being insulting and offensive to anybody who cares about those lost in the Holocaust.

Nobody is calling opponents of healthcare reform a Nazi.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but i think he's ignoring what is really going on right now in his attempt to push this health care idea. .

The Stimulus Package? The past six months (the first six months) of his administration? All that was talked about was the recession, and passing measures to get us out. Which appear to be working, and slowing-plateauing the recession as we speak.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

??? What are you talking about now?

You said:
"The hypocrisy of thinking anyone opposing this [healthcare reform] is a shill, Nazi etc. and then trying to suppress free speech and assembly by having citizens report on each other and using bullies at town meetings has been especially enjoyable."

So if you could show something that shows that people opposing healthcare reform are being called Nazi's, that would support your statement.

From what I see, there's no support for your statement at all. The few people televised or photographed or videotaped using the word Nazi seem to be those opposing the healthcare plan, and they are calling the President of the United States a Nazi.

Which is beyond absurd, aside from being insulting and offensive to anybody who cares about those lost in the Holocaust.

Nobody is calling opponents of healthcare reform a Nazi.

who then is Pelosi referring to? Her own party?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

who then is Pelosi referring to? Her own party?

Look - when you want to change the subject to something entirely different in the middle of a discussion, please start a new thread.

[dellinger63]

oops sorry that link is broken and to be correct she didn't call them (me) Nazi's she actually said they were carrying Swastikas. Now you show me the proof of what the heck she is talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_h7iKQ3Xps

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and here's this, on the stimulus spending, from a few months back:


http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/mak...ulus-spending/


~The Obama team originally estimated, for example, that unless a stimulus plan was enacted, the unemployment rate would reach nearly 9 percent sometime in the first three months of next year....


...But as things have turned out, even with the big spending package in place, the jobless rate shot up to 9.4 percent in May, according to the most recent figures from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Please look at the link I posted, which has the CURRENT information.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

The Stimulus Package? The past six months (the first six months) of his administration? All that was talked about was the recession, and passing measures to get us out. Which appear to be working, and slowing-plateauing the recession as we speak.

i said 'in his attempt to push his health care'. what that has to do with the stimulus i don't know. but he is ignoring the deficit and the harm it does by attempting to increase govt spending. the health care plan he is proposing is incredily expensive, and won't cover the amount of americans he says it will. a very costly plan for a small percentage of coverage. there is more to the story than just the recession-the deficit is the single biggest thing affecting our economy, and he's growing it. did you see the CBO numbers on his budget, which includes his health care plan?

Originally Posted by Riot

The Stimulus Package? The past six months (the first six months) of his administration? All that was talked about was the recession, and passing measures to get us out. Which appear to be working, and slowing-plateauing the recession as we speak.

LMAO

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Look - when you want to change the subject to something entirely different in the middle of a discussion, please start a new thread.

Try and focus here mam. You said, "The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's."

ON THIS THREAD

and I submit the following proof of the complete opposite. Again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_h7iKQ3Xps

So why do we need a new thread?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Please look at the link I posted, which has the CURRENT information.

that article is not exactly old info..and i did read your link. and i also read a few weeks back how unemployment rose to the same numbers with the stimulus plan as it was projected to without it. so, what exactly did all that proposed new spending accomplish job wise? nothing. but it sure added to our humongous deficit. so, i'd think in the end that it will do more harm than good. no job increase that they expected, no decrease in job losses, and a further drag overall due to more spending of money we DON'T HAVE.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

oops sorry that link is broken and to be correct she didn't call them (me) Nazi's she actually said they were carrying Swastikas. Now you show me the proof of what the heck she is talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_h7iKQ3Xps

???? Just google "obama health care swastika" It wasn't alot of people, but they were definitely there, and photographed. Here's two:

Jewish Groups Denounce Use of Nazi Images in Health Reform Debate
FOXNews - ‎Aug 7, 2009‎


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106158

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i said 'in his attempt to push his health care'. what that has to do with the stimulus i don't know. but he is ignoring the deficit and the harm it does by attempting to increase govt spending. did you see the CBO numbers on his budget, which includes his health care plan?

Okay, I thought you were saying he was ignoring the recession (not the deficit).

Yes, I saw the CBO numbers when they first came out (it was very well publicized) and I've seen alot of numbers since, and the one that seems to have been settled upon is 1 trillion over 10 years.