Oak Tree renames the Lady's Secret the Zenyatta

[RolloTomasi]

The La Canada and Santa Margarita were Grade 1s when Ladys Secret won them.

[RolloTomasi]

By the way this 'highest level' BS being exclusive to BC races is exactly what is wrong with racing.

Suddenly other Grade 1s aren't as important. I guess we'll have to rethink our assessments of Skywalker, Success Express, Arcangues, etc.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

By the way this 'highest level' BS being exclusive to BC races is exactly what is wrong with racing.

Suddenly other Grade 1s aren't as important. I guess we'll have to rethink our assessments of Skywalker, Success Express, Arcangues, etc.

Well said.

NT

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

But what race a month or 2 months before the BC isn't a prep today, it is unfair to single out The LS, that is why there is a grading system in place. Regardless Zenyatta has won 4 grade 1's at SA, 2 at the highest possible level, one with massive historically impact, LS has only won 1 at the highest level. If one is impartial that is still 1 better than LS even giving her the benefit of the doubt of The La Canada series that Rollo wants to give her.

You're missing the point. It's about the historical significance of the race. Rollo's point was that the Lady's Secret was created solely as a BC prep, whereas the JCGC has been around for a million years and used to be the equivalent of the BCC. We're not talking about what the races mean TODAY (although the JCGC still dwarfs the LS today).

[brianwspencer]

o
m
f
g

Still with the throwing $hit against the wall, hoping against all hope that something actually sticks.

Unfortunately, not everybody on this board is a total moron, so the wild inaccuracies, dishonest backpedalling, and fingers crossed while making a losing case just doesn't fly quite as well here as it does with the drunks at the OTB where someone like CSC may be able to just lie through his teeth and come off as awfully smart since nobody knows any better to just say STFU you're in over your head with this one.

Solid work again, Rollo.

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

She won at Keeneland last year.

Can I please have a link for your avatar?

[TouchOfGrey]

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

Can I please have a link for your avatar?

YGPM

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The La Canada and Santa Margarita were Grade 1s when Ladys Secret won them.

Yes good work but you should have also mentioned one of the races you cited was only a Grade 3 The El Encino and not it's present grade 2 status to make it excellent work.

Not to mention The La Canada was so good that it was eventually downgraded to a Grade 2, my original point was Zenyatta's BC Distaff, 2 LS's and BC Classic wins are more impressive any way you cut it than LS's Santa Margarita, El Encino, La Canada and BC Distaff wins. I am neither agreeing or disagreeing whether I agree with the name change but when you stack Z's SA record against LS's the decision to recognize her it was a good one. Whether this was the race to do it in is anyone's guess.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

o
m
f
g

Still with the throwing $hit against the wall, hoping against all hope that something actually sticks.

Unfortunately, not everybody on this board is a total moron, so the wild inaccuracies, dishonest backpedalling, and fingers crossed while making a losing case just doesn't fly quite as well here as it does with the drunks at the OTB where someone like CSC may be able to just lie through his teeth and come off as awfully smart since nobody knows any better to just say STFU you're in over your head with this one.

Solid work again, Rollo.

I will stick to horseracing and not get personal as you seem to have taken this, but keep trying in convincing me that Macho Again and Bullsbay are great racehorses. We know your motives, maybe if you keep saying it enough, it will eventually stick to the wall.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

I will stick to horseracing and not get personal as you seem to have taken this, but keep trying in convincing me that Macho Again and Bullsbay are great racehorses. We know your motives, maybe if you keep saying it enough, it will eventually stick to the wall.

Neither beat any great horses, but Rachel took her game with her to multiple tracks (fast and wet) and beat males over and over, while Zenyatta stayed in her backyard and beat up on the same lousy mares all year with the exception of the Classic (still in her backyard of course). This is what makes it an open-and-shut case to me. FFS, they scratched Zenyatta out of the Louisville because the track was wet. That's not a champion.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Neither beat any great horses, but Rachel took her game with her to multiple tracks (fast and wet) and beat males over and over, while Zenyatta stayed in her backyard and beat up on the same lousy mares all year with the exception of the Classic (still in her backyard of course). This is what makes it an open-and-shut case to me. FFS, they scratched Zenyatta out of the Louisville because the track was wet. That's not a champion.

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers would have been a better test for RA than the Woodward?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers was a better test for RA than the Woodward? Can someone just come clean...

If she ran in the Travers and won you would be spinning it that it was because of the sloppy track.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

while Zenyatta stayed in her backyard and beat up on the same lousy mares all year with the exception of the Classic (still in her backyard of course).

I have to make one note, Einstein was blasted in the Classic and still finished a respectable 3rd today, I think this is a testament how good a race the Classic was. A much better race than the Woodward is starting to look like and to be impartial(just so BS cannot throw out the bias card) perhaps also the JCGC. The older male division was a joke this year.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers would have been a better test for RA than the Woodward?

I think it would've been a tougher test, but not for the reasons you think. She crushed Summer Bird a month prior, why would she suddenly have had trouble with him? I think the Woodward was smarter just because I question her ability to go 10 furlongs as effectively as 9. That being said, I think she would've won the Travers too.

Originally Posted by CSC

I have to make one note, Einstein was blasted in the Classic and still finished a respectable 3rd today, I think this is a testament how good a race the Classic was. A much better race than the Woodward is starting to look like and to be impartial(just so BS cannot throw out the bias card) perhaps also the JCGC. The older male division was a joke this year.

Way to contradict yourself. The Classic was awesome, but the older male division was a joke? As much as I like Blame, that was not a very fast race today, so I don't think Einstein should be given extra credit for finishing third.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

If she ran in the Travers and won you would be spinning it that it was because of the sloppy track.

And if she also ran in the Belmont, JCGC, Classic and she will blast SB by the same margin next year...And if she can blast him next yr can I say I told you so...It's not my style but I'm sure many wouldn't let me off so easy.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
She crushed Summer Bird a month prior

:rolleyes: I can't wait till next year, this is so old. I may take bets.

[QUOTE

Way to contradict yourself. The Classic was awesome, but the older male division was a joke? As much as I like Blame, that was not a very fast race today, so I don't think Einstein should be given extra credit for finishing third.

It isn't? Glad to see you have trouble reading like others here, way to ignore the point, Einstein being blasted in a race Z was much the best in and finishing a respectable 3rd today, where was Bullsbay and Macho Again today...3 weeks ago 2 months ago..Nice try at diverting the conversation.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers would have been a better test for RA than the Woodward?

Wait, for her to beat up on the same 3yos she had already ROMPED on would have been a better test than beating older horses? Or wait, sorry, she hadn't crushed the mighty Hold Me Back yet....good point.

Only in your fantasy world, my friend. Only there.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

It isn't? Glad to see you have trouble reading like others here, way to ignore the point, Einstein being blasted in a race Z was much the best in and finishing a respectable 3rd today, where was Bullsbay and Macho Again today...3 weeks ago 2 months ago..Nice try at diverting the conversation.

If you could figure out how to use the quote button, I might know what point you were referring to. You do realize Macho Again beat Einstein in the Foster right? Kind of flies in the face of your otherwise ironclad "Einstein beat Macho Again today so Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra" corollary.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Wait, for her to beat up on the same 3yos she had already ROMPED on would have been a better test than beating older horses? Or wait, sorry, she hadn't crushed the mighty Hold Me Back yet....good point.

Only in your fantasy world, my friend. Only there.

Let's be clear she only romped 3 yr old males once this year, no one in their right mind can say that Macho Again & Bullsbay are better than Summer Bird or Quality Road, the beating 3 yr old males reason to me is a roundabout way of saying we are going the easiest route and I'm just not buying the making history point was the sole reason. I'm sure if Cigar or Skip Away had still been around she would have had a reason ready to go in the Alabama also.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

If you could figure out how to use the quote button, I might know what point you were referring to. You do realize Macho Again beat Einstein in the Foster right? Kind of flies in the face of your otherwise ironclad "Einstein beat Macho Again today so Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra" corollary.

The point is now, what kind of horse is MA. After RA was all out to beat him, he has been blasted by SB, and off a freshening where he was the favorite a well beaten horse today. He was also beaten by a horse that has run decent races on poly and just happened to be a distant loser to Z. Now are all these races absolutely true efforts, probably the answer is yes and no on this one, but even allowing for 1 off effort by both neither has come back to run a race worthy of a Whitney winner or a horse that was held to a higher rep for pushing RA to the limit. Whether one wants to see this or not, today's Clark flattered Z more than it did RA, even if it was arguably a small win.