Voter ID laws: Everyone has an ID, right? Nope

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Not to bait you at all, but just a question:

Why would the racial background or age matter when analyzing those who did not obtain official ID for themselves?

It is against United States law to discriminate against any segment of our population when it comes to voting rights.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

The electoral college system was conceived because the founders were afraid to give the full power of selection to the general public.
A correct assumption was made that people are suckers and could easily be fooled into electing someone completely unqualified.

i think they came up with the EC as a way for states to choose the executive, rather than by popular vote. that way, a certain segment couldn't hold sway ( in theory) over the rest of the country. after all, the fed is supposed to be the umbrella under which the states work. yeah, that part of the experiment has lately turned into an abysmal failure.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Huh, you keep asserting that the framers made sure that all votes counted the same when the exact opposite is true.
I assumed you must have read this somewhere so I was curious if you interpreted the Bill of Rights differently than I did.

But we don't live by the 1700's version, do we? Our laws and constitutional amendments say all our citizens have the franchise to vote. Right? ALL our citizens.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Riot

It is against United States law to discriminate against any segment of our population when it comes to voting rights.

Who is telling them they can't vote? Or is this your way of twisting the facts again to support your senseless, baseless, opinion?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

But we don't live by the 1700's version, do we? Our laws and constitutional amendments say all our citizens have the franchise to vote. Right? ALL our citizens.

Actually they give the reasons you cannot tell someone that they cannot vote. Age, race, sex etc.
Does say you need to be a citizen, proof of citizenship is the key.
How do you prove it without a verifiable form of identification?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Who is telling them they can't vote? Or is this your way of twisting the facts again to support your senseless, baseless, opinion?

LOL - you're funny.

Who is telling people they can't vote? Restrictive ALEC-GOP Voter ID laws that discriminate unfairly against certain segments of the population.

My "senseless, baseless" opinion isn't opinion, it is merely repeating what our judges and courts have found about these voter ID laws to date, as they have thrown them out.

It appears you should be directing your ire towards judges and our judicial system for standing up for the rights of your fellow American citizens.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Actually they give the reasons you cannot tell someone that they cannot vote. Age, race, sex etc.
Does say you need to be a citizen, proof of citizenship is the key.
How do you prove it without a verifiable form of identification?

you don't prove it. you take voters at their word. i mean, who would lie?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Actually they give the reasons you cannot tell someone that they cannot vote. Age, race, sex etc.
Does say you need to be a citizen, proof of citizenship is the key.
How do you prove it without a verifiable form of identification?

Look at your states current requirements to register to vote. Why do you want to eliminate some of those as invalid, making it more difficult for some to vote?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Who is telling them they can't vote? Or is this your way of twisting the facts again to support your senseless, baseless, opinion?

i did a search, as i thought others besides felons were disenfranchised, and found this:

Several states deny voting rights for life to anyone convicted of a felony. Children of American families living abroad often cannot vote when they come of voting age. American citizens living in Puerto Rico, Guam and the Virgin Islands can be drafted into the military but are unable to vote for their commander in chief. Congress has sweeping power to govern the District of Columbia, yet more than a half million citizens living in the District have no voting representation in Congress.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Look at your states current requirements to register to vote. Why do you want to eliminate some of those as invalid, making it more difficult for some to vote?

Some are a bit of a stretch to prove that you are a citizen, even you would agree with that no?
Or that they prove you are in fact that person?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Huh, you keep asserting that the framers made sure that all votes counted the same when the exact opposite is true.
I assumed you must have read this somewhere so I was curious if you interpreted the Bill of Rights differently than I did.

lol, exactly. Not that it is right, but werent only male, white, land owners allowed to vote by our founding father's standards?

and then of course black people were only counted as 3/5 of a vote.

and women never voted until 1920. Poor people could NOT even vote in the 1960's until the poll tax was removed!!

Even in 2012... American citizens who have committed a felony are not allowed to vote.


now none of that stuff above is okay (except maybe not allowing felons).

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

It is against United States law to discriminate against any segment of our population when it comes to voting rights.

this statement is false. Felons cannot vote. in 12 states, even felons who have completed their sentence and their probation and are "free" men.. they cannot vote.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

lol, exactly. Not that it is right, but werent only male, white, land owners allowed to vote by our founding father's standards?

and then of course black people were only counted as 3/5 of a vote.

and women never voted until 1920. Poor people could NOT even vote in the 1960's until the poll tax was removed!!

Even in 2012... American citizens who have committed a felony are not allowed to vote.


now none of that stuff above is okay (except maybe not allowing felons).

blacks weren't counted as 3/5 of a vote.
originally, slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person in deciding population of a state. it was something the southern states forced thru, or else they wouldn't ratify the constitution, as that was the only way to keep an even keel in the house of representatives. they knew that northern populations were much higher, which would put them in a position of less say in congress. and of course that would affect the number of electoral votes as well.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Some are a bit of a stretch to prove that you are a citizen, even you would agree with that no?
Or that they prove you are in fact that person?

The facts are that states determine their current requirements to register to vote. Our country at the federal level prohibits discrimination against any group of American citizens, or poll taxes, in voting.


Under the current system, voter fraud incidence is 0.0002 to 0.0004% of votes. That is several hundred votes in a national election. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent

Additionally, most of those cases of voter fraud could not be eliminated by a stricter photo ID requirement (felons voting when they should not, etc).

Thus requiring stricter requirements to vote has zero basis in need.

Implementing stricter requirements to vote will measurably disinfranchise up to 5 million valid, currently voting American citizens, and take their right to vote away, as determined by our judicial system, who is overturning restrictive Voter ID laws.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

It is against United States law to discriminate against any segment of our population when it comes to voting rights.

showing an ID is NOT discrimination, unless you just like to play the race card.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

this statement is false. Felons cannot vote. in 12 states, even felons who have completed their sentence and their probation and are "free" men.. they cannot vote.

Yes, we all know felons cannot vote, a thinking person following the discussion would not assume I meant differently without having to spell it out in every single post.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

this statement is false. Felons cannot vote. in 12 states, even felons who have completed their sentence and their probation and are "free" men.. they cannot vote.

note my post above, it's not just felons.

i don't think a civics test should be administered.
i do think registrations need work, and that a photo id should be required. else how do you know that freddy isn't going to vote a second time as uncle frank, cause he knows uncle frank can't be bothered?
what about if you moved? or changed licenses? as i said above, there have been people who moved, and they vote twice. it's not fiction, it happens!

i know that many have said, ad nauseum, that there is no fraud (which is untrue) or very little. even very little fraud should be unacceptable. it's one of our most basic rights as citizens-but no one should be allowed to vote fraudulently.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

blacks weren't counted as 3/5 of a vote.
originally, slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person in deciding population of a state. it was something the southern states forced thru, or else they wouldn't ratify the constitution, as that was the only way to keep an even keel in the house of representatives. they knew that northern populations were much higher, which would put them in a position of less say in congress. and of course that would affect the number of electoral votes as well.

thats correct.. my bad

it was just male property owners.. people who had a financial interest in where the country was heading.

not that is is morally correct, but I understand where they were coming from, and its a big reason why I believe in term limits for Congress today.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

showing an ID is NOT discrimination, unless you just like to play the race card.

What in the world is "playing the race card" when making more restrictive voter ID laws disenfranches 18% of all 18-24 year-olds of all races, and 18% of all seniors of all races?

How is that disenfranchisement "playing the race card"? That's absurd.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, we all know felons cannot vote, a thinking person following the discussion would not assume I meant differently without having to spell it out in every single post.

yeah well it made your post 100% incorrect.