Rags!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by miraja2

What she did today was quite impressive, and she deserves to be praised for it. It was an exciting race and she performed very well.
Although I doubted this filly a bit before the Oaks, I have liked her ever sense her performance that day so I am BEGGING people on here to avoid saying things like "she beat a freak in Curlin" and that she is better than any filly other than Kincsem and Ruffian. Don't make me start rooting against this filly because of the nonsensical over-hype (see Bernardini last year).
She is a very good filly, and MAYBE someday she will rank among the all-time greats. But if Curlin is a freak, our definition of a "freak" has changed dramatically. And how in the world could she rank higher than someone like (to name just one example) Personal Ensign? Personal Ensign was 13 for 13 lifetime, including 8 G1s over three years, AND beat the boys in the Whitney.
Any ranking of all-time great fillies that had Rags over Personal Ensign right now would be.....well.....just plain wrong.

Post race excitement and the fact a filly won the Belmont. When people see they walked the first half of the race, it will die down. But it was a hell of a competitive race. The 3 TC races this year were a joy to watch. This was a good year. And it was a great race even if it was not a race to put any sane person in physical awe of these horses. The stamina was nice to see though. In fact, I think they may have run Jazil fractions. I leave that for somebody to determine.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by miraja2

What she did today was quite impressive, and she deserves to be praised for it. It was an exciting race and she performed very well.
Although I doubted this filly a bit before the Oaks, I have liked her ever sense her performance that day so I am BEGGING people on here to avoid saying things like "she beat a freak in Curlin" and that she is better than any filly other than Kincsem and Ruffian. Don't make me start rooting against this filly because of the nonsensical over-hype (see Bernardini last year).
She is a very good filly, and MAYBE someday she will rank among the all-time greats. But if Curlin is a freak, our definition of a "freak" has changed dramatically. And how in the world could she rank higher than someone like (to name just one example) Personal Ensign? Personal Ensign was 13 for 13 lifetime, including 8 G1s over three years, AND beat the boys in the Whitney.
Any ranking of all-time great fillies that had Rags over Personal Ensign right now would be.....well.....just plain wrong.

I agree totally...all I've said is that right now she seems to have unlimited potential...how that plays out only time will tell. Personal Ensign's BCD was one of the great efforts of all time, I love that horse!

[Merlinsky]

What would she have to achieve to warrant Classic vs. Distaff then? A mile and a quarter in a field that includes Curlin at the shorter distance, Street Sense, Invasor and others is a different animal. Do we need her to hit up the Travers for example? I assume a shorter race against males would be in order...any way they'd even think of doing the CCA Oaks and Alabama and still the Classic? I'm torn, those are pretty big races and I'd hate for her to miss them...what's her dream schedule in your eyes?

[chupster2]

Errrr.....Can anyone say "came home in under :24"? Seems even more impressive to me considering the early fractions, but I guess that is just me.

[pick4]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

For those comparing Beyers to determine where she belong on the list of all-time greats please remember that Beyer speed figures measure speed and speed only. They do not measure heart, and they do not measure class, for which Rags to Riches has both.

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

To me, history is winning a classic horse race. Check. (Belmont Stakes..and Oaks)

To me, history is overcoming obstacles. Check (wide-trip).

And finally, history is doing something unusual, extraordinary, out-of-the-norm..double check (A filly beats the boys, and answers a classy foes every attempt at the lead).

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

My wallet would have been heavier if Curlin had prevailed. I initially liked Rags to Riches from a handicapping perspective but was talked off of her. I did not have a strong opinion in the Belmont Stakes and was wishy washy. But I also liked Rags to Riches from a fans perspective. In hindsight I should have added her to my tickets, but I've learned that rooting for a horse to win because of sentimental reason and betting a horse on handicapping logic does not mix. My mistake was ignoring my initial thoughts that Rags to Riches matched up well with these horses well with the fact that she is a she a non thought.

I was in the stands today and once they got to the 1/8 pole, I realized I was about to have a birdseye view of an historical event. 102 years since a filly won this great race and I'm about to see it happen live in person. At that point the gambling aspect went out the window for me. A friend who was next to me was rooting on Tiago to close the gap. I remember grabbing him and saying we're watching history. When Rags to Riches past the finish line I had a strange feeling of delight. I looked at my arms and saw my arms covered in goosebumps. I can't ever remember a horse race ever having tha effect on me. Even races where I won significant amounts of money. The stands which were sparsely crowded for most of the day were packing and were very loud.

As far as saying she is the greatest filly of all time, I think it's like the same argument that goes on with baseball in particular but other sports as well. Comparing athetes who did not compete together in the same era is hypothetical. There is no true correct answer and it's all opinion. She's clearly head and shoulders above her generation.

Rags to Riches victory will bring positive coverage to horse racing. Emotionally people will probably to horse racing in a favorable light.
Hopefully her connections let her run for the next year at the very least.

She's an incredible athlete. I don't care if it was 6, 8, 9, 10, 20 furlongs...she beat Curlin fair and square and will forever be remembered as a champion.

I expect the Classic could be in her future. I hope so.

[Danzig]

photo of rags' break:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/appho...hotoId=1597337

[_ed_]

That was a wonderful race. I was sitting down in front of the TV but as they turned for home I stood up for no apparent reason.

One of the most exciting races I've seen in a long time. If you were able to close your jaw in the 1-2 minutes after that race, I don't think you're a racing fan.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Could be? Are her parents trying not to claim her or something?

I know who her parents are, and they're not the same ones as R2R.
I was talking about "looks".

[jerseybred]

From her elegant curtsy at the start to her & curlin dueling their hearts out down the stretch .... it was awesome .... i still have goosebumps!
btw... where does heart factor in with the DF's? gotta love the game.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah I am in agreement with this, which is why I found it so fascinating that Street Sense got the shaft here after the Preakness. They're both very nice horses, personally I don't see much separating them. So if Curlin is a freak, what's Street Sense? And Rags To Riches is a really nice filly also. The talks of her being an all time great are as premature as the talks of Bernardini being an all time great after his Travers last year, but I guess we just have to get used to it now.

altho i'm not ready to put this crop on par with the one that brought us round table, iron liege, bold ruler, etc....i think this crop is getting a bit less respect than it deserves.
curlins' preakness win was a record tying effort, with him on the books as tying the stakes time.
street sense is the first two year old champ to win the derby in 28 years, the first bcj winner to win the derby, and was within a head bob of being on the books as tying the preakness stakes record--this after his season opener (when he 'wasn't at his best') and broke the tampa record...
now you've got a filly who is the first to win the belmont in 102 years, and the first to win it at 12 panels....


too soon to see how they all shake out, but i don't think this is a subpar crop at all. i think they've given a good accounting to this point. and don't forget, that bold ruler crop, there were three winners in the three classics....but please, don't take me saying that as indication i'm saying these will make such a lasting mark--they won't. chances are that none of the top of this crop will be around long enough to do so.

Originally Posted by chupster2

Errrr.....Can anyone say "came home in under :24"? Seems even more impressive to me considering the early fractions, but I guess that is just me.

Under 24 running Smarty Jones fractions would be impressive. But they walked for 6f (1:15.1/5 probably a bit slower for her) It was a Euro turf race by the numbers.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Under 24 running Smarty Jones fractions would be impressive. But they walked for 6f (1:15.1/5 probably a bit slower for her) It was a Euro turf race by the numbers.

Now I see CP West had the lead 1:15.37... thats the recipe for coming home in under 24. You cant do that easily going 23, 47, 1:11... Should be very interesting what kind of Beyer numbers they (Rags and Curlin) get.

1:40 for the mile... Smarty Jones at 1:35... Holy schnikes thats slow. Chupster they absolutely walked. It was a very weird race. I love the filly, but that was not a taxing run. Thats how you come home fast.

Can anyone imagine where we might be with Rags right now if Pletcher had decided to run her in the Derby and she had stumbled like that. She most likely would have had no chance. And then everyone would be saying what a dumb... for running her.

Patience, timing, and luck come together. Along with a horse that can apparently run marathon distances.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Can anyone imagine where we might be with Rags right now if Pletcher had decided to run her in the Derby and she had stumbled like that. She most likely would have had no chance. And then everyone would be saying what a dumb... for running her.

Patience, timing, and luck come together. Along with a horse that can apparently run marathon distances.

Pat,
Your last two sentences say it all.
Also, in a mile and a half effort...well, to me it makes sense to leave something in the tank. Others have burned up before going too fast too early.