Zenyetta vs Racheal

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The difference is people could ship into California and take her on. Horses couldn't ship in to run in New Mexico restricted races.

If it was dirt im sure they would, but most people dont want to run on old used condoms.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

She did beat up on this one horse named Ginger Punch in Arkansas. You might remember Ginger Punch's name. I think she was the reigning champion older mare. And I'm not sure but I think that Arkansas is not in California. But I'll get back to you on that.

I understand your point and agree with it to an extent but going to ridiculous extremes to try to make it doesn't make any sense.

So winning on rubber tires and B tracks makes a horse a Champion and a take on all comers at any track type of horse?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

This Ginger Punch argument is weak. Brownie Points was second. If anyone thinks Brownie Points was better than Ginger Punch overall they're kidding themselves.

They both sucked.

[Smooth Operator]

Given an honest pace, Z would devour Rachael in the lane in a 10f contest like the PE, JerseyJ.



Little Rachael would probably jump the rail in fear when she saw that Z train coming at her...

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by kgar311

. Its my opinion. How is hiding in California

Your opinion is pretty week IMO.

How do you run in the breeders cup twice and duck the top older mares in the country? She IS the top older mare.

This is Azeri all over again, the old "until you win at Saratoga you aint much of a horse".

If you think there is a older mare on dirt that can beat her than I just hope you bet lots of money, lots and lots, I dont think you do but god I hope so.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

This Ginger Punch argument is weak. Brownie Points was second. If anyone thinks Brownie Points was better than Ginger Punch overall they're kidding themselves.

I guess you believe that a Ginger Punch that wasn't at her best wasn't any better than the horses Pepper's Pride was beating? I guess you are saying that going into the race, you knew Ginger Punch was going to run a bad one? The main point is that Zenyatta did leave California and to face the reigning champ at that. Pepper's Pride never did anything like that.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I guess you believe that a Ginger Punch that wasn't at her best wasn't any better than the horses Pepper's Pride was beating? I guess you are saying that going into the race, you knew Ginger Punch was going to run a bad one? The main point is that Zenyatta did leave California and to face the reigning champ at that. Pepper's Pride never did anything like that.

I think its funny, and symptomatic of this argument, that we are comparing Zenyatta to Peppers Pride.

Yup, no bias and hatred at play here.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by kgar311

So winning on rubber tires and B tracks makes a horse a Champion and a take on all comers at any track type of horse?

I don't know if it makes a horse a champion but it sure as hell makes her better and her accomplishments better than a horse winning restricted stakes on a Z track.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

This Ginger Punch argument is weak. Brownie Points was second. If anyone thinks Brownie Points was better than Ginger Punch overall they're kidding themselves.

Would you say Bayakoa's owners didn't deserve any credit for supplementing her and sending her to NY to face Go for Wand in the BC, even though Go for Wand was an odds-on favorite because GfW didn't finish the race? The intent of a move is important too sometimes.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Would you say Bayakoa's owners didn't deserve any credit for supplementing her and sending her to NY to face Go for Wand in the BC, even though Go for Wand was an odds-on favorite because GfW didn't finish the race? The intent of a move is important too sometimes.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Im going to have to read this one 50 more times to make sure I understand this correctly, its just not coming to me right away what this means

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by kgar311

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Im going to have to read this one 50 more times to make sure I understand this correctly, its just not coming to me right away what this means

Travis is saying that mentioning that Zenyatta going to Arkansas to beat Ginger Punch is a weak argument because obviously GP didn't run her race. I'm saying that you can't use the outcome of the race and hold that against Zenyatta. The fact is that going into the race, GP was the reigning champ and was coming off a a stakes win at Gulfstream so Moss has got to be given at least some credit for taking on that challenge and that challenge was a bigger one than Pepper's Pride ever took on.

[10 pnt move up]

Poll coming

Zenyatta to Pepper Pride : the more respected horse

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Travis is saying that mentioning that Zenyatta going to Arkansas to beat Ginger Punch is a weak argument because obviously GP didn't run her race. I'm saying that you can't use the outcome of the race and hold that against Zenyatta. The fact is that going into the race, GP was the reigning champ and was coming off a a stakes win at Gulfstream so Moss has got to be given at least some credit for taking on that challenge and that challenge was a bigger one than Pepper's Pride ever took on.

Ok I just didnt understand the comparison, I thought Go for Wand was at her best that day and Bayakoa just was the better horse. They battled hard and GFW paid the ultimate price for her huge heart.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Poll coming

Zenyatta to Pepper Pride : the more respected horse

Why don't you name the poll: The more respected connections, after all thats what the argument is about. Unless the horses make the decisions on where they race.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Ok I just didnt understand the comparison, I thought Go for Wand was at her best that day and Bayakoa just was the better horse. They battled hard and GFW paid the ultimate price for her huge heart.

The comparison was that the owners made the move in the first place and because GfW didn't finish the race, you can't hold that against Bayakoa's people sending her in the first place just like you can't hold it against Zenyatta's owners that Ginger Punch didn't run her race. Going out there in itself was taking on a challenge.

Bayakoa was not the better horse.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The comparison was that the owners made the move in the first place and because GfW didn't finish the race, you can't hold that against Bayakoa's people sending her in the first place just like you can't hold it against Zenyatta's owners that Ginger Punch didn't run her race. Going out there in itself was taking on a challenge.

Bayakoa was not the better horse.

Bayakoa had her collered and was going by, that day she was better.

[Danzig]

anyone calling zenyatta less than the best older mare in the country has a screw loose, just like anyone belittling rachel. they're both good, knocking one doesn't make the other better.
as for if they met on dirt, i think rachel would win-she's more tractable, and isn't a one run type horse. sooner or later, that may jump up and bite zenyatta, just like it almost did the other day. but that doesn't mean zenyatta isn't better-if she got the right trip, could she catch and pass rachel? who knows? um, nobody, that's who.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

anyone calling zenyatta less than the best older mare in the country has a screw loose, just like anyone belittling rachel. they're both good, knocking one doesn't make the other better..

Yea but it makes a horse racing fan feel better that their sport cant even create a championship matchup.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by kgar311

If it was dirt im sure they would, but most people dont want to run on old used condoms.

I'm pretty sure that was one of the challenges on Paris Hilton's My New BFF.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Danzig

anyone calling zenyatta less than the best older mare in the country has a screw loose, just like anyone belittling rachel. they're both good, knocking one doesn't make the other better.
as for if they met on dirt, i think rachel would win-she's more tractable, and isn't a one run type horse. sooner or later, that may jump up and bite zenyatta, just like it almost did the other day. but that doesn't mean zenyatta isn't better-if she got the right trip, could she catch and pass rachel? who knows? um, nobody, that's who.

Shouldnt the best older mare in the country be racing in the best races? We have 30k claiming horses going to Cali and winning grade 1 races. We also have monster 3yr olds prepping for the Kentucky derby out in Cali and when they come to Churchill and people are touting them as next triple crown winners, they end up looking like below average horses.