American Pharoah...

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

So, let me get this straight.

If AP rolls by open lengths in the Preakness, will you come back and say he maybe had an off day in the Derby?

Depends on if Firing Line and Dortmund have off days at Pimlico.

[RHT2004]

Based on what I saw he did have an off day and still won because he is that much better then these horses, maybe Dortmund being the exception. Yes he had a clear trip, but he was also wide throughout the race so those things X each other out. I think he dominates the Preakness and probably losses the Belmont for a lot of the reasons BTW mentioned. He was hurt, and they are asking an awfully lot of him right now. I do think he will be sent to the lead in the Belmont and in Smarty Jones like fashion will open up turning for home. No way this jockey will play games after last year. But all of the racing will catch up to him. I want him to do it. I like the owner, he has had some great horses and has been unlucky. I also think the GOAT deserves it, Im just not sure its in the cards. Its kinda funny because everyone says how good/deep this crop is. And AP won and it feels like because he didn't win in hand by 10 lengths that its not good enough.....

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Depends on if Firing Line and Dortmund have off days at Pimlico.

LOL.

You are finally living up to your namesake.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Based on what I saw he did have an off day and still won because he is that much better then these horses.....

I rest my case.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Nobody with any functioning gray matter thought he was going to win the Triple Crown. In fact, most people on here seemed to think his Derby win would be his last major win.

I certainly didn't, and maybe you didn't either. But plenty of somebodies did, betting Orb down to 3-5 in the Preakness. The media certainly bought the hype hook, line & sinker.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I rest my case.

Actually, I think he's had a brain transplant.

His posts since coming back seem like they're being ghost written.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Based on what I saw he did have an off day and still won because he is that much better then these horses, maybe Dortmund being the exception. Yes he had a clear trip, but he was also wide throughout the race so those things X each other out. I think he dominates the Preakness and probably losses the Belmont for a lot of the reasons BTW mentioned. He was hurt, and they are asking an awfully lot of him right now. I do think he will be ,sent to the lead in the Belmont and in Smarty Jones like fashion will open up turning for home. No way this jockey will play games after last year. But all of the racing will catch up to him. I want him to do it. I like the owner, he has had some great horses and has been unlucky. I also think the GOAT deserves it, Im just not sure its in the cards. Its kinda funny because everyone says how good/deep this crop is. And AP won and it feels like because he didn't win in hand by 10 lengths that its not good enough.....

I don't perceive there being any negativity towards his performance, only a bit of reality that he isn't a super horse.

Perhaps this will play out to be like a Captain Bodgit, Silver Charm & Free House Triple Crown season. (With Materiality being the bad-trip spoiler in the Belmont )

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I don't perceive there being any negativity towards his performance, only a bit of reality that he isn't a super horse.

Perhaps this will play out to be like a Captain Bodgit, Silver Charm & Free House Triple Crown season. (With Materiality being the bad-trip spoiler in the Belmont )

But only crazy people on twitter called him a super horse, right? I don't get how winning the Derby makes you not as good as you were going in. Its not like the beyer came back really slow, and timeform gave it a good fig. I thought it was a good performance from a very good horse.

[Arletta]

"According to CHRB staff, Kentucky requires that a jockey show the horse the whip and give it time to respond before striking the horse, and then must give the horse time to respond before striking it again. New York also requires jockeys to show the crop to the horse before striking again."

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz3ZDHMIvrd

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

But only crazy people on twitter called him a super horse, right? I don't get how winning the Derby makes you not as good as you were going in. Its not like the beyer came back really slow, and timeform gave it a good fig. I thought it was a good performance from a very good horse.

No, there were smart people saying outlandish things about him that certainly did not come to fruition in the Derby. The fact that you are saying he didn't handle the track in the Derby is a direct result of that. This is the kind of opinion that indirectly will cause you to lose money unnecessarily, and eventually this could make you less of a racing fan.

The problem is that people get led astray with this kind of silliness. But, hey, at least some of us don't mind playing the bad guy, as long as it helps some people.

[Benny]

AP wears them ,and lost his only race without them. YET, the bettor has no knowledge of this in the pps, alongwith shoeing info and change of bits, no ? I had not known of he AP bar shoe until i read it here. why are lask and blinkers reported, but not earplugs, and sometimes shoeing ?

http://www.si.com/horse-racing/2015/...nd-bob-baffert

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No, there were smart people saying outlandish things about him that certainly did not come to fruition in the Derby. The fact that you are saying he didn't handle the track in the Derby is a direct result of that. This is the kind of opinion that indirectly will cause you to lose money unnecessarily, and eventually this could make you less of a racing fan.

The problem is that people get led astray with this kind of silliness. But, hey, at least some of us don't mind playing the bad guy, as long as it helps some people.

Maybe its my high opinion of him after the Arkansas Derby that makes me feel like he didn't run his race. That's all I said. I never mentioned the track. I hate all the hype he gets. It makes it hard to want him to do good. This is a horse who broke his maiden in a G1. He is clearly talented. I get that he pulls a lot of good trips, but I believe horses with tactical speed make there own trip. So I cant hold this against him. I read someone saying he has never had to take kick back. Well my response to that is why would he ever have to? I think he is a front runner who can rate. For what its worth I respect your opinion more then most. You mentioned a horse that was over 40-1 on talking horses on Saturday that I gave a 2nd look to because of you. He ran 2nd.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

This is a horse who broke his maiden in a G1.

Recall that the two horses who finished behind him in the Del Mar Futurity were also maidens at the time. One of them still is.

These are the unmentioned details that keep hype alive.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Recall that the two horses who finished behind him in the Del Mar Futurity were also maidens at the time. One of them still is.

These are the unmentioned details that keep hype alive.

Skyway had just won a G2 over the track, the prep for the G1.
Calculator came back and ran two good races before being sidelined. Finishing 2nd to AP next time out then winning a G3. Improving his beyer every race. These things matter, correct?
As for the hype. I agree that he is over hyped. I did not bet him at 5-2. I said on this board that I thought the chalks were legit going into the Derby. I was using Dortmund and AP as A's and Frosted and Upstart as my only back ups. I actually bet Upstart to win because of price.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Calculator came back and ran two good races before being sidelined.

It's interesting that American Pharaoh was the only one of several juveniles in CA last year that suffered major setbacks that has been able to make a sustained comeback.

Iron Fist went to the sidelines after the DM Futurity. Henry's Holiday went to the sidelines after one of the big stakes. Skyway went to the sidelines after bombing in the Frontrunner. American Pharaoh and Calculator were high profile scratches from the Breeder's Cup. One Lucky Dane went on the shelf after the BC. Texas Red disappeared after his seasonal debut. Calculator was injured in a workout soon after his comeback. One Lucky Dane was hurt in a work for the Kentucky Derby after 2 races.

So far, the late season 2yos, Dortmund and Firing Line have held it together.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It's interesting that American Pharaoh was the only one of several juveniles in CA last year that suffered major setbacks that has been able to make a sustained comeback.

Iron Fist went to the sidelines after the DM Futurity. Henry's Holiday went to the sidelines after one of the big stakes. Skyway went to the sidelines after bombing in the Frontrunner. American Pharaoh and Calculator were high profile scratches from the Breeder's Cup. One Lucky Dane went on the shelf after the BC. Texas Red disappeared after his seasonal debut. Calculator was injured in a workout soon after his comeback. One Lucky Dane was hurt in a work for the Kentucky Derby after 2 races.

So far, the late season 2yos, Dortmund and Firing Line have held it together.

Waiting for Om's 2nd start back too..

[Arletta]

Bob Baffert handles "Papparazzi" after arriving at LAX.

"American Pharoah is going to get lots of a.ss when he retires"


http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/04/bob-ba...get-sooo-laid/

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It's interesting that American Pharaoh was the only one of several juveniles in CA last year that suffered major setbacks that has been able to make a sustained comeback.

Iron Fist went to the sidelines after the DM Futurity. Henry's Holiday went to the sidelines after one of the big stakes. Skyway went to the sidelines after bombing in the Frontrunner. American Pharaoh and Calculator were high profile scratches from the Breeder's Cup. One Lucky Dane went on the shelf after the BC. Texas Red disappeared after his seasonal debut. Calculator was injured in a workout soon after his comeback. One Lucky Dane was hurt in a work for the Kentucky Derby after 2 races.

So far, the late season 2yos, Dortmund and Firing Line have held it together.

That's what happens when you have fast horses, they get hurt. When you are slow like some of horses on the east coast, you can't run fast enough to get hurt!! ��

[pointman]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No, there were smart people saying outlandish things about him that certainly did not come to fruition in the Derby. The fact that you are saying he didn't handle the track in the Derby is a direct result of that. This is the kind of opinion that indirectly will cause you to lose money unnecessarily, and eventually this could make you less of a racing fan.

The problem is that people get led astray with this kind of silliness. But, hey, at least some of us don't mind playing the bad guy, as long as it helps some people.

Clearly there is way too much dead weight here to ever get a deal done.

[RHT2004]

That was a thread kill.