Cap and Trade vote on Friday

And that old lady...

'Uncle John, when are we goin to get
to lynch us some jew-boy,asian, negra, muslams'

She was headed that way.
A fine moment in town-hall politics.
Who let the old crackers go stale...

[10 pnt move up]

Does anyone know if this bill forces are competitors China and India to also make the same changes? If not how are we not at a major disadvantage?

[JJP]

No, it in no way forces them to do anything. And if they do nothing, it doesn't matter if we completely outlaw coal, refineries and natural gas.

Its just a smokescreen for the Dems to bring in tax money, hidden behind the green agenda.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Does anyone know if this bill forces are competitors China and India to also make the same changes? If not how are we not at a major disadvantage?

All this bill would do is force manufacturing out of the us, cost EVERYONE in the US more $. If you truly believe global warming is a problem, wouldn't pushing manufacturing etc. out of the US and into countries with less pollution regulation cause more issues globally than if we did nothing.
Also, if people are old enough to remember back in grade school years back they were worried about global colding and teaching that in schools. It will be a high of 63 degrees here today and it is the first of july. Global warming, really?

Originally Posted by wiphan

All this bill would do is force manufacturing out of the us, cost EVERYONE in the US more $. If you truly believe global warming is a problem, wouldn't pushing manufacturing etc. out of the US and into countries with less pollution regulation cause more issues globally than if we did nothing.
Also, if people are old enough to remember back in grade school years back they were worried about global colding and teaching that in schools. It will be a high of 63 degrees here today and it is the first of july. Global warming, really?

I am now convinced there is no global warming.
Impeccable data.

[Smooth Operator]

Ah, finally some indisputable proof of "global colding" ... lol

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I am now convinced there is no global warming.
Impeccable data.

lol


It feels like I am jumping into a really really hot, hot tub every time i step outside. But then again I do live in the middle of Florida and it is July.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I am now convinced there is no global warming.
Impeccable data.

Since you believe in global warming, are you convinced that Cap and trade helps improve the environment and will ultimately improve global pollution?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Ah, finally some indisputable proof of "global colding" ... lol

The point is not to prove global colding only to point out the fact that scientist, etc have argued both ways at different points in time. Data can be read and interpretated different ways depending on who is providing and receiving the data. The fact of the matter is no person can honestly say that cap and trade will improve GLOBAL POLLUTION. All it does is cost tax payers more money and the less you make the more high a percentage you will pay in reference to your income. This is the most regressive tax proposal I can remember

Originally Posted by wiphan

Since you believe in global warming, are you convinced that Cap and trade helps improve the environment and will ultimately improve global pollution?

Absolutely not.
I am not convinced.

I am much more confident that the earth is going through
a warming period.

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

lol


It feels like I am jumping into a really really hot, hot tub every time i step outside. But then again I do live in the middle of Florida and it is July.

And damn you for all the rain you have taken from us.
But look. The tease from mother nature again. This front is moving south.

weather.JPG

Originally Posted by wiphan

Since you believe in global warming

And what do you believe?

Sources would be appreciated as I have read a lot.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And what do you believe?

Sources would be appreciated as I have read a lot.

I am not educated enough on the subject to tell you whether or not global warming does or does not exist. I know that there are arguements on both sides. What I do know is that by instituting cap and trade in America you will not solve anything. Obviously if you are concerned with Global warming the problem is a global problem and not just problem in the US. By instituting cap and trade in America you would push more manufacturing out of the US and into countries with even less restrictions than we have which I believe would cause more issues long term.

Originally Posted by wiphan

I am not educated enough on the subject to tell you whether or not global warming does or does not exist. I know that there are arguements on both sides. What I do know is that by instituting cap and trade in America you will not solve anything. Obviously if you are concerned with Global warming the problem is a global problem and not just problem in the US. By instituting cap and trade in America you would push more manufacturing out of the US and into countries with even less restrictions than we have which I believe would cause more issues long term.

This above of course is all moot if the period of
warming that I believe is occurring is indeed
caused by human activity.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Why?..Because you are not a Liberal..or because you hate everything that Obama advances?...or both? Either way, you are a poster child for why we shouldn't elect anyone you vote for..

I love good arguements with conservatives, but please say something that makes sense..Don't make me resort to random right wing Nancy Reagan insults..as easy as they might be.

I just know going into debt this far is wrong. I freaked when Bush did the TARP thing. When the new administration spent a TRILLION before it touched the 350 BILLION Bush left the new administration to start out with. I became very concerned. Spending is not the answer. I was a lifelong Democrat until last year. Still fairly liberal. Sometimes I feel like I'm the one being tortured. I only hate "almost" everything Obama advances. I hate the Congress more. We're all in this together brother. I'd vote for almost anyone who isn't already in there. If you like what's going on , then great, but I'll be voting for change.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes they will.
They will be the example for us.
They are experimenting with their environmental health
right now.

They have already made a few coal powered
plants that emit much less CO2 than ours as well as particulate matter. Very expensive though. But they work better than anything we have. So maybe we can Japan them. Steal their ideas and make them less expensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/bu...w.html?_r=1&hp

[JJP]

Unfortunately, it will pass in the Senate. Previously, it wouldn't have, but the coal industry, is apparently in Barack's back pocket. Since the coal companies are getting a near pass, there's nothing to stop the Democrats in coal mining states to vote for it. So who's getting screwed? The natural gas companies are taking it big time. Ironically, which is a far cleaner source of energy, coal or nat gas? That answer is obvious......so much for the "green" agenda.

This will be a huge regressive tax. Let's see what the poor and lower class who voted for Obama have to say after their energy bills triple or quadruple. It won't be pretty.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by JJP

Unfortunately, it will pass in the Senate. Previously, it wouldn't have, but the coal industry, is apparently in Barack's back pocket. Since the coal companies are getting a near pass, there's nothing to stop the Democrats in coal mining states to vote for it. So who's getting screwed? The natural gas companies are taking it big time. Ironically, which is a far cleaner source of energy, coal or nat gas? That answer is obvious......so much for the "green" agenda.

This will be a huge regressive tax. Let's see what the poor and lower class who voted for Obama have to say after their energy bills triple or quadruple. It won't be pretty.

So my $200 a month winter gas bill is going to $800??..really?..I don't think so

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by GBBob

[/b]

So my $200 a month winter gas bill is going to $800??..really?..I don't think so

I'm willing to wager whatever JJP wants that it will be closer to $214.65 than $800.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'm willing to wager whatever JJP wants that it will be closer to $214.65 than $800.

Stop posting facts