SUN: Racing's media makeover paying off

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Look at chuck trying dance. You said it was a "major piece to the puzzle". That is not what that journalist or anyone else said. 150k in gaming space is a pittance in relation to the size of the place. The idea behind the place is a step away from gaming. The mention of the gaming space is about as important as who designed the mall.

Are you really going to compare occupancy on a new hotel geared to a totally different market to an established hotel geared to an established market...during a recession?????

Give me a break. There is no dance, there is fact. The fact is that the CENTERPIECE OF THE PROJECT is a hotel/casino. hink they are making a ton of money on 63% occupancy at $82 a night? Again i didnt call it the centerpiece and the journalist most likely got that from City center literature.

Regardless of how you want to spin it the place is going to tank. Whether it is because it was going to tsnk anyway or if the recession killed it or some combination of the two the fact is that there is nothing positive about this project. Even the shills from MGM speak guardedly about the thing.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hold on a minute. Now everything entertainment related is tanking? So your theory is valid, those pesky details like every project you bring up is hemorraging cash is the fault of the economy?

So Stronach's idea was a good one but the demographics of Aventura/N.Miami/Hallandale/Hollywood have somehow screwed him? The idea for the gulfstream park location was anything but a good idea. Except to you and frank. The idea of night racing and entertainment centers/malls are not original ideas. Freddy Mo would just close it all down.

Racing 5k claimers at Penn for 18k with 30k bet on the race in front of 1000 people if beyond stupid for racing especially when 7 of the horses in the race cant run a 50 BSF

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hold on a minute. Now everything entertainment related is tanking? So your theory is valid, those pesky details like every project you bring up is hemorraging cash is the fault of the economy?

So Stronach's idea was a good one but the demographics of Aventura/N.Miami/Hallandale/Hollywood have somehow screwed him? The idea for the gulfstream park location was anything but a good idea. Except to you and frank. The idea of night racing and entertainment centers/malls are not original ideas. Freddy Mo would just close it all down.

You never addressed anything I said. I will repost:

You tell me Chuck how Charlestown thrives? Is that racing product any good? Do you get better odds at the Borgata casino than you do at Trump? Are the slots looser there?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Come on? With less racing purses would increase, handle per race would grow, those owners at Thistle would either be priced out, or some other owner. You would have day rates increase A LOT. You would be racing 10 claimers for 30k all the time not 11k. Racing has to contract, it has to have less of everything including owners that shouldnt be the sport.

Did the inner at Aqueduct really need Hedge Fund(half to Super Saver) racing every 5 days to fill the 7500 whle somewhere there are 20 horses at Turfway that should have been in NY or somewhere substantial help filling the card? And yes if there 12 and 3 on the AE list in a 7500 claimer with only 40 races being run in the country on a wednesday in Feb the Handle and the interest would be very marketable.

The facts are that there is less racing now than there was 20 years ago and it doesnt seem to be helping

http://www.jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=6

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You never addressed anything I said. I will repost:

You tell me Chuck how Charlestown thrives? Is that racing product any good? Do you get better odds at the Borgata casino than you do at Trump? Are the slots looser there?

I dont follow CT so I cant tell you anything about it.

I dont care about the odds at the Borgata or Trump.

I dont ever play slots so i dont know or care about them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Racing 5k claimers at Penn for 18k with 30k bet on the race in front of 1000 people if beyond stupid for racing especially when 7 of the horses in the race cant run a 50 BSF

It isnt stupid for those that choose to wager on it. it isnt stupid for those who race for those pots. The elimination of those horses doesnt benefit racing at higher venues. All it does is give the player fewer racing choices and drive them to play poker or some other gambling activity.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Give me a break. There is no dance, there is fact. The fact is that the CENTERPIECE OF THE PROJECT is a hotel/casino. hink they are making a ton of money on 63% occupancy at $82 a night? Again i didnt call it the centerpiece and the journalist most likely got that from City center literature.

Regardless of how you want to spin it the place is going to tank. Whether it is because it was going to tsnk anyway or if the recession killed it or some combination of the two the fact is that there is nothing positive about this project. Even the shills from MGM speak guardedly about the thing.

You called the 150k of gaming space " a major piece of the puzzle" Would you like me to link you to the post you said it in Fred Astaire? LOL

Why do you have such a strong opinion about a project you admittedly don't know a whole lot about? Its interesting to me. And they aren't charging 82 bucks a night. Thats a big part of the problem. The average nightly rate is about twice that and the weekend rate is over 3.5x that.

But what are they going after? Again, success or failure can't be judged in the first quarter.

As far as Dubai World being done, surely you don't think that Kirkorian et al is suddenly broke or creditless. Do you?

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I laughed..

Narcissist

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont follow CT so I cant tell you anything about it.

I dont care about the odds at the Borgata or Trump.

I dont ever play slots so i dont know or care about them.

CT is a successful model for horse racing. It refutes the idea that the racing has to be "good". The average race there is a 4.5f sprint with low level claimers. Its 45 minutes from the nearest major airport and it is in a desolate part of Jefferson county.

How does it thrive?

Borgata is a casino off on its own close to atlantic city. As opposed to every other casino in Atlantic city, it is making money and actually thriving even during these times. Why?

You are an intelligent man. You know the answers.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

Great posts today!

I'm looking forward to checking the City Center out this fall. It's a big improvement over the boardwalk. Sheesh that place smelled like piss, cigs, and ass.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The facts are that there is less racing now than there was 20 years ago and it doesnt seem to be helping

http://www.jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=6

Between 1990 and 2010 how many friggin gambling spots across the country have opened? IN 1990 how many states had slots? How many had casinos? How many states added a instant lottery tix marketed with tens of millions?

Think about where you had to go in 1990 to gambling? Indiana nope Michigan nope Delaware? how about the Indian Reservations..NEGATIVE.


You don't have a choice anymore either the bag 30% of the industry and refine it to a cottage well groomed entertainment gambling circuit or watch it die.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Narcissist

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

CT is a successful model for horse racing. It refutes the idea that the racing has to be "good". The average race there is a 4.5f sprint with low level claimers. Its 45 minutes from the nearest major airport and it is in a desolate part of Jefferson county.

How does it thrive?

Borgata is a casino off on its own close to atlantic city. As opposed to every other casino in Atlantic city, it is making money and actually thriving even during these times. Why?

You are an intelligent man. You know the answers.

Borgata is doing 40% less business then they used too. I am there 10 days a month save the weekends the place is becoming a bowling alley.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Shouldn't racetracks figure out how to give their current customers the kind of treatment they deserve before trying to solve the elusive goal of creating a plentitude of new fans?

A simple "I agree with Randall in this thread" would have sufficed.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It isnt stupid for those that choose to wager on it. it isnt stupid for those who race for those pots. The elimination of those horses doesnt benefit racing at higher venues. All it does is give the player fewer racing choices and drive them to play poker or some other gambling activity.

Real interesting betting on 5k claimers that are snapping legs and can't run 6f's in 1:15

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You called the 150k of gaming space " a major piece of the puzzle" Would you like me to link you to the post you said it in Fred Astaire? LOL

Why do you have such a strong opinion about a project you admittedly don't know a whole lot about? Its interesting to me. And they aren't charging 82 bucks a night. Thats a big part of the problem. The average nightly rate is about twice that and the weekend rate is over 3.5x that.

But what are they going after? Again, success or failure can't be judged in the first quarter.

As far as Dubai World being done, surely you don't think that Kirkorian et al is suddenly broke or creditless. Do you?

Grasping at strws? You are now analyzing my choice of words?

The fact that of the 109 condo units sold so far all have been 100% financed by City center themselves isnt troubling to you? The fact they were planning on $2.7 billion dollars in revenue of condo sales at the height of the market isnt troubling? The fact that when launched the MGM stock prices was $100 a share and it is now at $14 isnt troublesome? That this place was a stretch in the best of times and is assuredly facing something less than that isnt troubling?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Grasping at strws? You are now analyzing my choice of words?

The fact that of the 109 condo units sold so far all have been 100% financed by City center themselves isnt troubling to you? The fact they were planning on $2.7 billion dollars in revenue of condo sales at the height of the market isnt troubling? The fact that when launched the MGM stock prices was $100 a share and it is now at $14 isnt troublesome? That this place was a stretch in the best of times and is assuredly facing something less than that isnt troubling?

Didn't Sheik Mo finance this? If so where is the indoor Skiing? Imagine all the horses Bin Suror could have ruined with another 3 bil?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

CT is a successful model for horse racing. It refutes the idea that the racing has to be "good". The average race there is a 4.5f sprint with low level claimers. Its 45 minutes from the nearest major airport and it is in a desolate part of Jefferson county.

How does it thrive?

Borgata is a casino off on its own close to atlantic city. As opposed to every other casino in Atlantic city, it is making money and actually thriving even during these times. Why?

You are an intelligent man. You know the answers.

I give up...maybe CT provides free dental work for its employees and they try harder?
Maybe they are selling crack and machine guns out of the Borgata, the two staples of existence in AC?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I'm looking forward to checking the City Center out this fall. It's a big improvement over the boardwalk. Sheesh that place smelled like piss, cigs, and ass.

Plenty of rooms available