My theory and feelings on Polytrack

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then clean up that first post. Because if you do know something about the industry, that was a very sloppy attempt at debating Polytrack. Incredibly sloppy.

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

How do you know he was wrong?

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then clean up that first post. Because if you do know something about the industry, that was a very sloppy attempt at debating Polytrack. Incredibly sloppy.

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

There will come a time in the near future where the government will install chips in our bodies to keep track of us.

And it's common knowledge the House of Saud controls our President.

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

That's pretty f'ing funny..

If Cunningham is worried about his professional future, then he should be/have been prepared to adapt. Like anyone who is business for themselves, REGARDLESS of the industry they are in, the business world around them changes often. I am also self employed in an industry that is very volatile, there are no guarantees, just options, what we do with those options is how we succeed or fail. Being educated and versed in the options is the best way a businessman can be successful.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then clean up that first post. Because if you do know something about the industry, that was a very sloppy attempt at debating Polytrack. Incredibly sloppy.

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

Nah, I believe in everythin I wrote and I think my experience carries plenty of wweight for me to argue my position....

Originally Posted by pba1817

That's pretty f'ing funny..

If Cunningham is worried about his professional future, then he should be/have been prepared to adapt. Like anyone who is business for themselves, REGARDLESS of the industry they are in, the business world around them changes often. There are no guarantees, just options, what you do with those options is how you succeed or fail. Being educated and versed in your options is the best way a businessman can be successful.

Hilarious.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

I am only going to comment on part of your post because everyone knows how I feel on this subject. The thoroughbred was created by humans and not by God. Humans experimented with breeding different types of horses before they came up with the thoroughbred.

Originally Posted by pba1817

That's pretty f'ing funny..

If Cunningham is worried about his professional future, then he should be/have been prepared to adapt. Like anyone who is business for themselves, REGARDLESS of the industry they are in, the business world around them changes often. I am also self employed in an industry that is very volatile, there are no guarantees, just options, what we do with those options is how we succeed or fail. Being educated and versed in the options is the best way a businessman can be successful.

I'm involved in this industry ON BOTH ENDS.....it'll be easy for me to adapt on one end, but the other end is far more unpredictable....and people who know me understand what I mean...A single person could not be as invested in this game as me.....it can't happen...

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pgard, they TRAIN on it. yeah they run some minor races on it in the winter, but training is its primary function.
You can talk to a lotta trainers who will tell you that their horses train fine on grass(how many times have we read that before a stakes horse makes his grass debut?), but they don't run on it worth a damn.
I'm hearing the same thing as Joel, trainers say they train ok on it, but don't race worth a damn on it.

OK cool. Why not? They train well but the cant race race on it. Do they have specific running styles that seem to flourish on it? They gotta have a few horses who have run a race well on it. Why did the horses run well on it? That kind of thing. If its going to spread. I personally would immediately try and draw a general pattern of horses that run well on it. And then test it on the track in a race. A pattern has got to emerge. Even a pattern that changes as the polytrack might change in diff. conditions... just like dirt to slop to mud back to sludge... Just my way. Curiosity and insight has gotta rule here or nothing goes forward. Griping is fine, but if its going to happen anyway...

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I'm involved in this industry ON BOTH ENDS.....it'll be easy for me to adapt on one end, but the other end is far more unpredictable....and people who know me understand what I mean...A single person could not be as invested in this game as me.....it can't happen...

I think it can. You're underestimating people.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I am only going to comment on part of your post because everyone knows how I feel on this subject. The thoroughbred was created by humans and not by God. Humans experimented with breeding different types of horses before they came up with the thoroughbred.

The bottomline is that horses were created as athletes, and when they were tailored to be athletes God made them equipped to be athletic on a natural surface.....look at the horses Billy the Kid used to ride out on 30 mph as his get-away vehicle in the old, Wild West days, and look at the Thoroughbred we have now.....they all have 4 legs and weigh about 1000 pounds and they all work or run over natural surfaces....

[2MinsToPost]

Far be it for me to chirp in but I'll just say what I know for fact.

People on the whole are resistent to change

Polytrack smells and looks spooky, literally. I have seen it first hand.

In science, it takes time to formulate an intelligent review of a change. In other words, trial and error.

Now for my "Soap Box" statement.

The ones that are shaking in their boots mad about this are worried about how their end of the business will be affected. I can understand that. All those years you have vested in the business, knowing and understanding the ups and downs of breeding, dirt, etc etc..

Now for my "Personal" reflection

The Horse Racing world is too big with too many people in postions of power and large quanities of money to allow things to get "out of hand" concerning this polytrack business. Time will tell the tale. Let it run its course.

[TitanSooner]

we should just put ice around the track. Can't get more natural than that.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'll tell you one thing dude, your patting yourself on the back for what you know, or what you do is getting REAL OLD. It's not just you, because there are a few on here that do it, but there are also a few on here with a lot more clout in this business, that don't. You and the others that do it aren't impressing anyone, and it is kind of sad. Most of your posts are done to get a debate going where then you try and "flex your muscles", telling everyone how you are right because you know more. So why even start a thread? Your act is realized by many a poster on here as witnessed the other night. Seriously, you have a lot of good to say, but the constant chest pounding thing is getting to be real worn out.

And, most imprtantly, I PUT MY NAME OUT THERWE AND DON'T HIDE BEHIND A PHONY SCREEN NAME.....If you want to consider yourself as much of an insider, then you puit your name out there and let us know who you are - and then maybe you can teach the public about racig? Frankly, you can call it arrogance or what you will, but I get PMs all of the time with people who apparently aren't as 'advanced as you' who want my opinions on things and say that they learn from what I have to offer.....That is why I post here...So continue to hide behind your screen name and be a hater...

By the way, Did your mom name you DaHoss?..Or is this Michael Dickinson?

Ok, one more comment on the breeding industry.....the industry will be fine and will actually flouirsh. If we got rid of dirt tracks and replaced them all with a synthetic surface the only thing would change is the name of the breeding stars. So, With A City replaces Storm Cat, Asi Siempre replaces AP Indy it doesn't matter what surface it is. It only matters which horses can produce offspring that can run on the surface. In fact it may cause less in-breeding in the beginning because people would be forced to change their breeding habits which would be good for the breed.

I have said this 1000 times--a synthetic surface is good for Turfway and Woodbine but I really dont think it is good for Churchill or Saratoga. And I have spoken to just about every top trainer at Keeneland and every top jock at Keeneland this past meet and they seem to like the surface.

[Honu]

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….



To be honest it wouldnt hurt my feelings if I never saw a horse by Storm Cat again in my life. Of the ones I have been around or sat on I have found about 90% cant breath and or have bad feet and knees with the temperment of a pissed off badger or woman how ever you see it.

Originally Posted by Honu

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….



To be honest it wouldnt hurt my feelings if I never saw a horse by Storm Cat again in my life. Of the ones I have been around or sat on I have found about 90% cant breath and or have bad feet and knees with the temperment of a pissed off badger or woman how ever you see it.

If you owned a Storm Cat mare you just paid $3 million for, you'd be singing a different tune.....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The bottomline is that horses were created as athletes, and when they were tailored to be athletes God made them equipped to be athletic on a natural surface.....look at the horses Billy the Kid used to ride out on 30 mph as his get-away vehicle in the old, Wild West days, and look at the Thoroughbred we have now.....they all have 4 legs and weigh about 1000 pounds and they all work or run over natural surfaces....

Horses werent created to be athletes--lol. The term athleteswasnt even used when they developed the thoroughbred. God didnt even create the thorughbred--humans did.

[Honu]

MY AVITAR SHOWED UP!!!!!!! YAY
Its Billy at Del Mar last summer.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The bottomline is that horses were created as athletes, and when they were tailored to be athletes God made them equipped to be athletic on a natural surface.....look at the horses Billy the Kid used to ride out on 30 mph as his get-away vehicle in the old, Wild West days, and look at the Thoroughbred we have now.....they all have 4 legs and weigh about 1000 pounds and they all work or run over natural surfaces....

Billy the Kid? He lived long enough back to ride Eohippus...

It is not fruitful to try to reason a man out of something he did not reason himself into.

- Jonathan Swift

I think this about sums up the history of horses by Cunningham. Pray to God that those genes align the right way, the gestation and environment of all your runners is perfect, and lets pray most races set up correctly to give you get a winner. I will. Seriously, I will.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Horses werent created to be athletes--lol. The term athleteswasnt even used when they developed the thoroughbred. God didnt even create the thorughbred--humans did.

GOD CREATED HORSES TO BE WORK ANIMALS, NOT EXCLUSIVELY, BUT THEY HAVE WORKED FOR HUMANSD SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME....A THOROUGHBRED IS A HORSE.....PERIOD....