Privman: Let the Horse of the Year Debate Begin

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Scav

Right when CBB starts, COME ON!

I'm done with bball. If I make a move w/ football I'll be back in Jan. Plus I made that future NBA bet.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I'm done with bball. If I make a move w/ football I'll be back in Jan. Plus I made that future NBA bet.

What NBA future bet?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Scav

What NBA future bet?

$500 on the celtics at sportsinteraction.com got them at an insane overlay. I got 7-1 at the time I made the bet, they were 4-1 on sportsbook.com.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

As we have seen in recent years, I don't think the gap is big at all, if it even exists between some of the better males and females in this country.

Historically speaking - it's pretty damn wide. I will agree though - the last four years or so have featured some awfully weak crops of 3yo males and older males.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

My understanding of HOY is horse that had the best year. I factor in what races they won, who they beat and how that compared to other horses. Had Zenyatta run in one other race against males this year, I think she would be a pretty solid favorite for HOY, even with the narrow defeat in the BC. But, her connections rolled the dice and she didn't win the race. She ran really well, but just fell short. That compared with the fact Blame beat her and had a pretty decent (by todays standards) year of his own means IMO he should win and win convincingly.

I hear you.

There have been a lot of times when the best 2-year-old in the country wouldn't be good enough to defeat anyone of several hundred horses aged 3 and up.

There have been times when the best 3-year-old filly wasn't among the 60 or maybe even 100 best horses in the entire country age 3 and up.

There have been times when the best mare isn't among the 25 or 30 best horses in the country.

It's mind-boggling how bad the 3yo male and older male division is in relation to the leaders in the other divisions.

[tector]

[Scav]

Originally Posted by tector

Wow! LOL

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Scav

I can't remember but did Azeri clearly have the best year when she won HOY? Wasn't there someone else that was pretty good that year and people bitched and moan about her winning it. I can't remember if she won it the year she got drilled in the Classic or not.

No, she got it in 2002. 2004 was year o' the Ghostzapper. Here's her 2002 Distaff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxD_V...eature=related She was an impressive gal, and I wish we hadn't lost her to Japan. The horses in the Distaff that year included Farda Amiga, Imperial Gesture, Take Charge Lady, Starrer, Summer Colony,  Mandy's Gold, and Two Item Limit. She got (not drilled but a rather respectable) fifth in the Classic in 2004. Beyer was totally dogging on her and I think said something about how she wouldn't finish in the top half of the field, but she did. The fact that her races were on dirt I'm sure mattered. If they were on synthetic, maybe less support for HOY.

I don't remember it being terribly controversial that she won over War Emblem or Medaglia D'Oro, but maybe somebody was saying it. I don't think the vote was very tight. People were complaining more about how that the 3yo colt and older male divisions fell apart. Either one could've gotten it, but the only horse that didn't have issues was Azeri. She did manage to travel for the Apple Blossom. If Zenyatta comes along in that year instead, running on dirt, she probably gets it even running in the Distaff.

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I'm done for a while. Honestly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyK0y02HvVc

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

No, she got it in 2002. 2004 was year o' the Ghostzapper. Here's her 2002 Distaff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxD_V...eature=related She was an impressive gal, and I wish we hadn't lost her to Japan. The horses in the Distaff that year included Farda Amiga, Imperial Gesture, Take Charge Lady, Starrer, Summer Colony,  Mandy's Gold, and Two Item Limit. She got (not drilled but a rather respectable) fifth in the Classic in 2004. Beyer was totally dogging on her and I think said something about how she wouldn't finish in the top half of the field, but she did. The fact that her races were on dirt I'm sure mattered. If they were on synthetic, maybe less support for HOY.

I don't remember it being terribly controversial that she won over War Emblem or Medaglia D'Oro, but maybe somebody was saying it. I don't think the vote was very tight. People were complaining more about how that the 3yo colt and older male divisions fell apart. Either one could've gotten it, but the only horse that didn't have issues was Azeri. She did manage to travel for the Apple Blossom. If Zenyatta comes along in that year instead, running on dirt, she probably gets it even running in the Distaff.

i know there was a lot of discussion about it on the message board. tons of folks were unhappy that a horse with zero open races was in the running for hoy. but the group of males that year had spotty records-street cry tailed off after a good spring, left bank made a brief impressive fall run. hers was the only good, year-long campaign.
and i believe ghostzapper won hoy with only four races that year he got the award. some wanted him to get hoy the following year with just a met mile under his belt.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

hers was the only good, year-long campaign.

It was a good - long - easy one.

[johnny pinwheel]

As usual the 9 pages of tripe as if there is a debate....i remember reading the same sh^t saying she was not going to run in the classic. (it went on for months!)....lol........this is live theater (kind of like the three stooges or its always sunny in philadelphia)lol. I think people just like bitching and stirring the pot. because this sh^t can't be serious???? can it??? of course Blame is it. the winner gets the spoils. there will be some stupid votes of would of , could of , should of. but voters with integrity will vote for blame or the game is worse off than i think it is. this whole internet thing is viral....stupidity spreads quickly............the other horse ran a hell of a race...in fact the naysayers should shut up because you really look stupid. first you said she would not run, now you are bragging like she humiliated herself. Yeah, zenyatta ran like an untested piece of sh^t, making up 18 and half lengths . are you happy now? ...MORONS. Blame was better though and is the champ....i now live in a world where results and reality no longer count.....God bless us all! PS. please keep betting this way too. its getting cold i need vacation money....lol

[slotdirt]

Why do folks keep talking about this awful trip Zenyatta had? Really, was it that bad?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Why do folks keep talking about this awful trip Zenyatta had? Really, was it that bad?

Her trip was excellent. Every time a deep closer in a collapsing race doesn't get through like Street Sense or Mine That Bird did - people exaggerate the trip.

[tector]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Why do folks keep talking about this awful trip Zenyatta had? Really, was it that bad?

She had the typical type of trip deep, deep closers routinely have in fields of any size (something unfamiliar in SoCal). That's it. Her running style is what it is, and you have to take the good and the bad with it. It is far from ideal which is what makes her record--even with the many tin-can races--even that much more remarkable. It is harder to win constantly if you have a one dimensional running style, either deep closer or need-to-lead (the latter is even tougher, I think, because any rabbit can kill you).

[Princess Doreen]

^^^ Good post.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Im not even allowed back to 2 local spots. 1 in Albany that I got hooked up through a poker game, more of poker w/ Madden. Same thing in Ballston Spa, Poker w/ madden. I talk so much **** when Im winning they dont want me back.
I always win, I will play my back up quarterback, I sub him in and take a knee with him. I say, I gotta let these little digital back up's get some burn, they part of the team. Its classic in person, when I actually pause the game and go from Aaron Rodgers to Matt Flynn. Do you know how mad people get when your up 21-3, your defense is amazing... The entire game they are hearing NON STOP **** TALKING, IM THIS GOOD I CAN ONLY BEAT MYSELF.... There $100 or $200 is up in front of the flat screen, and Im pausing the game, delaying the inevitable to put my back up's in. What a feeling...

That's it. I'm no longer calling you Rock Hard Ten. Your new name is Rock Tard Hen.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Rock of Gibralter got something like 7 votes for Horse of the Year that year - and he didn't even win the BC Mile in his only lone North American start.

that was a heck of a 2nd place performance though!

[CSC]

If a precedent was going to be set for 1 BC race winning HOY it would have been Arazi and probably the best juvenile performance I can remember, Black Tie Affair won it that year on the strength of his Islin, Foster and Classic wins, but he certainly will not be rememered as one of the greats, his soft wire wire win in the classic over Twilight Agenda was mediocre. Goldikova simply doesn't deserve it off a single performance in the mile.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

If a precedent was going to be set for 1 BC race winning HOY it would have been Arazi and probably the best juvenile performance I can remember, Black Tie Affair won it that year on the strength of his Islin, Foster and Classic wins, but he certainly will not be rememered as one of the greats, his soft wire wire win in the classic over Twilight Agenda was mediocre. Goldikova simply doesn't deserve it off a single performance in the mile.

She deserves Horse of the World... but not Horse of America's year..

[slotdirt]

Never say an unkind word about Black Tie Affair. He was a beast.