All charges being dropped

[Grits]

It was just announced by the NC Attorney General's Office that all charges are being dropped in the Duke LaCrosse case. Charges against all three young men.

There was no DNA to link these men to the alleged rape of this African American woman who was an exotic dancer. Of course that was known sometime ago, still the District Attorney in this case pushed forward even when this woman could not identify these men, nor could she keep from changing her story numerous times.

The District Attorney, as most know by now, wanted and needed the vote of the black community in order to keep his position. He got that. Though now, he faces quite a long list of ethic charges by the NC Bar Association.

This entire case has been a nightmare from the beginning, at which time this young woman was seen as a poor African American woman violated by three elitist white guys from Duke University, all the sons of wealthy parents.

She was lying from day one.

I wonder if Rev Al Sharpton and Rev.Jesse Jackson will have anything to say about the outcome of this particular case. I wonder if they will demand that this young African American woman apologize for her lying, along with the District Attorney Mike Nifong who withheld evidence in the case. (His disbarrment would be more suitable.)

I doubt this bit of news this morning will get anywhere near the press that Imus has gotten in the last three days. And that's a shame because it is every bit as newsworthy as the other debacle.

This case had a profound and detrimental affect on the lives of these young men and their families. And it has been the biggest embarrassment ever, to the state of North Carolina.

I doubt you'll see Al and Jesse commenting on this on tonights national news.

And that, I believe, is racism at its most obvious.

[Payson Dave]

Grits, surely by now you know that it is only racism when it is directed towards non-whites....it is "get a thicker skin" when it is directed at whites... this being the case your suggestion that Rev Al and Rev Jesse should comment is probably somehow racist.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

Grits, surely by now you know that it is only racism when it is directed towards non-whites....it is "get a thicker skin" when it is directed at whites... this being the case your suggestion that Rev Al and Rev Jesse should comment is probably somehow racist.

Dave, hush! LOLOL

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Grits

And it has been the biggest embarrassment ever, to the state of North Carolina.

All this time I thought it was slavery and the loss to Georgetown.

In all seriousness though, it's about frigging time. I think this story highlighted the bad and ugly of everything, because it further stigmatizes legitimate rape victims.

Rape is one of the most brutal, dehumanizing, isolating, crushing assertions of dominance a man can inflict upon a woman (yes i know it goes both ways too!), and for a woman to get raped and then be compared to this would be tragic. It's been happening across the country forever though, because a couple of bad apples use the wolf cry of rape to attempt to legitimize their otherwise unsavory behavior. Then when real rapes occur, people will point to this and say "why should we believe you?" which is the very last thing a rape victim needs to hear. Having seen it firsthand (a "badge of honor" I wish I didn't have) with one of my very best friends in this world, it disgusts me that anyone would take such a serious crime that permanently scars victims and has them looking over their shoulder for the rest of their life and unable to trust the opposite sex and a litany of other simply awful repurcussions, and try to use it when no real rape has occurred is offensive to every real rape victim out there and those who love them and have watched their suffering from the front row. It is one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever experienced in my life, so I don't take it lightly.

Long story short. **** her. I hope those boys can put this behind them as best they can.

[IrishofNDMan]

I am familiar with this topic as well, because about 4 years ago when I was in 10th grade in high school, one of my buddies had a party. His parents were gone, and everyone was drinking. One of my friends who was a girl in my class, was getting with another one of my guy friends who was in 9th grade. Next thing we know, everyone was in a bunch of trouble as the girl told everyone at school she had been raped. It went to trial and a lot of messed up things were going on, and I still have no idea who to believe. Rape is a terrible thing, and something that should NEVER be lied about. I believe that my buddy did not rape her, but he has to live with it the rest of his life.

[somerfrost]

I have said from the beginning that this case smelled! My heart goes out to the young men who will have this over their heads forever as well as their families...the DA should be removed from office and disbarred at the very least. BUT...once again, blaming black leaders for this mess is ridiculous! Put the blame where it belongs...on the woman if she lied and it appears she did, the DA who shamelessly sacrificed truth for political gain (last I checked, he was a white guy I think). Again...how about some historical prespective here...young white guys from wealthy families allegedly raping a poor black woman...humm, that sounds familiar. Wasn't too long ago that it happened all the time, and the only outcome was that jokes were made about it! What would you expect black leaders to do?? They demanded justice and justice was done...in this case, the innocense of the young men has been determined and a corrupt and pathetic DA exposed. The fact that the guys had to go through the hell of being tried and convicted in the media is another issue. I wonder...were those who condemn Jesse and Al so outspoken during the OJ trial? Lots of white talking heads tried and convicted him in the media...whether you believe he was guilty or not, was that any more fair? Black leaders have learned to use the media to get across issues...in the 60's, it was often the presence of the media that kept us alive. Again, an unfortunate situation is used to attack black leaders instead of the real guilty parties...

[Grits]

PASS

Somer, you diatribe is the same here as in the thread about Imus. I clearly stated Nifong should be disbarred. I also stated the woman was lying from day one.

Now, if that's throwing it all on your Black leaders--well hush my mouth and call me stupid.

I think not.

Done.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Grits

PASS

Somer, you diatribe is the same here as in the thread about Imus. I clearly stated Nifong should be disbarred. I also stated the woman was lying from day one.

Now, if that's throwing it all on your Black leaders--well hush my mouth and call me stupid.

I think not.

Done.

I think otherwise!
First off...I don't know if the girl was lying "from day one"...I don't know what she said and when she said it, I don't know if she was prompted by the DA or not. All I do know is that the evidence isn't there to support a rape charge and never was...I'm always cautious condemning someone like her cause I know how things like that can evolve...IF she made up a story then she can be charged...I don't think that has happened yet so I'll withhold remarks about what she did or didn't do! As I said...blame falls on her if she did lie and wasn't coerced. Your remarks would have been fine if you stopped with a comdemnation of the DA but you had to take a shot at Jackson and Sharpton...therein lies my problem!

[Payson Dave]

See Grits...what did i tell ya

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I think otherwise!
First off...I don't know if the girl was lying "from day one"...I don't know what she said and when she said it, I don't know if she was prompted by the DA or not. All I do know is that the evidence isn't there to support a rape charge and never was...I'm always cautious condemning someone like her cause I know how things like that can evolve...IF she made up a story then she can be charged...I don't think that has happened yet so I'll withhold remarks about what she did or didn't do! As I said...blame falls on her if she did lie and wasn't coerced. Your remarks would have been fine if you stopped with a comdemnation of the DA but you had to take a shot at Jackson and Sharpton...therein lies my problem!

Hey Somer: can you step off the "Freedom Train" long enough to get Sharpton to apologize for the Brawley fiasco? We both know that these 2 men never miss a "photo op" or fail to insinuate themselves into a situation to bless us with their wisdom. They're nothing but shills....mouths for hire!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I think otherwise!
First off...I don't know if the girl was lying "from day one"...I don't know what she said and when she said it, I don't know if she was prompted by the DA or not. All I do know is that the evidence isn't there to support a rape charge and never was...I'm always cautious condemning someone like her cause I know how things like that can evolve...IF she made up a story then she can be charged...I don't think that has happened yet so I'll withhold remarks about what she did or didn't do! As I said...blame falls on her if she did lie and wasn't coerced. Your remarks would have been fine if you stopped with a comdemnation of the DA but you had to take a shot at Jackson and Sharpton...therein lies my problem!

No. I disagree wholeheartedly, because the way you're framing Sharpton and Jackson in this case paints them exactly how they want to be painted: Infallible.

You're holding them up in this case (which resembles some other cases they get involved with, even if only slightly) so that if she is telling the truth, they can be right by galavanting around talking about race when we should have been talking about strippers and rape from the get-go anyway. If they're wrong, which it certainly seems like they are, they just hush their mouths and never mention it again. No, they should be responsible for what they say in the very same way they want others to be responsible for what they say. It should be (dream world of course) that their threshold of accountability is at exactly the level they want to hold others to.

They were wrong. They race baited this situation, and they were wrong. Plain and simple. But you give them a free pass because of how you felt about them in the 60s? I don't mean to show my youthful ignorance, but times are a changing my friend.

Now I need to get out of this thread and stop agreeing with Grits before my head catches on fire out of the sheer irony.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Hey Somer: can you step off the "Freedom Train" long enough to get Sharpton to apologize for the Brawley fiasco? We both know that these 2 men never miss a "photo op" or fail to insinuate themselves into a situation to bless us with their wisdom. They're nothing but shills....mouths for hire!

Timm,
They are leaders of the black community, it's not necessary for you or me to like them but they deserve the respect accorded to leaders. I already spoke of Tawana and that mess...as I said, Al jumped too fast but it was believable.
Whenever accusations are treated as facts, innocent people suffer...I have steadfastly stood by that point all my life. Again...the problem here is the oldest trick in the book, the topic is about the charges brought against the Duke guys...instead of focusing on the DA who is clearly the "bad guy" here, folks quickly attack Jesse and Al. This is an old worn-out tactic, used against Dr King himself...I agree 100% with the original issue...that these boys were treated unjustly by a corrupt public figure...but I wonder, why do folks have to use this topic (and others) to attack black leaders?

[timmgirvan]

The Black people don't consider either of these 2 to speak for them! That was in the MSM just the other day. So, because of the miscues that follow these 2...you really can't call them leaders btw...A leader apologizes when he makes an error in judgement(Sharpton)

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

No. I disagree wholeheartedly, because the way you're framing Sharpton and Jackson in this case paints them exactly how they want to be painted: Infallible.

You're holding them up in this case (which resembles some other cases they get involved with, even if only slightly) so that if she is telling the truth, they can be right by galavanting around talking about race when we should have been talking about strippers and rape from the get-go anyway. If they're wrong, which it certainly seems like they are, they just hush their mouths and never mention it again. No, they should be responsible for what they say in the very same way they want others to be responsible for what they say. It should be (dream world of course) that their threshold of accountability is at exactly the level they want to hold others to.

They were wrong. They race baited this situation, and they were wrong. Plain and simple. But you give them a free pass because of how you felt about them in the 60s? I don't mean to show my youthful ignorance, but times are a changing my friend.

Now I need to get out of this thread and stop agreeing with Grits before my head catches on fire out of the sheer irony.

No Brian...we are saying that they are doing what they should be doing...calling attention to an issue that has great significance to their community. They are leaders and that is what leaders should do! Nobody is saying they don't make mistakes...as I said (repeatedly) I was very vocal when Sharpton screwed up the Brawley situation...innocent people suffer when accusations are treated as facts. And the times do change but people change a lot slower! We are the sum of our experiences...like them or not, we need outspoken leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton. There is no justification for the hell the Duke boys have gone through, but it was a corrupt WHITE official who caused their pain and the sins of our fathers who made it an issue!

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Timm,
They are leaders of the black community, it's not necessary for you or me to like them but they deserve the respect accorded to leaders. I already spoke of Tawana and that mess...as I said, Al jumped too fast but it was believable.
Whenever accusations are treated as facts, innocent people suffer...I have steadfastly stood by that point all my life. Again...the problem here is the oldest trick in the book, the topic is about the charges brought against the Duke guys...instead of focusing on the DA who is clearly the "bad guy" here, folks quickly attack Jesse and Al. This is an old worn-out tactic, used against Dr King himself...I agree 100% with the original issue...that these boys were treated unjustly by a corrupt public figure...but I wonder, why do folks have to use this topic (and others) to attack black leaders?

As leaders (black or otherwise) it would not be unreasonable for them to comment in a contructive manner rather than a destructive manner...they seem to be very vocal in a very much onesided way...

[Mortimer]

Please don't let Professor P. Garden WindBag see this.






He always finds a way to drag Iranian Studies into a discussion.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The Black people don't consider either of these 2 to speak for them! That was in the MSM just the other day. So, because of the miscues that follow these 2...you really can't call them leaders btw...A leader apologizes when he makes an error in judgement(Sharpton)

Nobody "speaks for" the black community...it is made up of individuals with individual points of view but Jesse and Sharpton are leaders. Tell me, how many times does George Bush apologize when he's wrong? In a perfect world, leaders would be perfect...but how can you justify holding black leaders to a higher standard than white leaders? This topic wasn't about Jesse and Al, it was about an injustice involving the Duke guys...but folks sure want to focus on Jesse and Al and again, I wonder "aloud" why???

[timmgirvan]

Try focusing...This isn't about Bush. These Bozo's(my apologies to the Clown College) continually insert themselves in situations that don't warrant their intrusion. We don't need Jackson(or Carter) leading a delegation to anywhere to save the world. I was responding to your statements. Actually, I would hold them to a higher stand simply because of the Rev. in front of their names...but that's just me. Their actions decry their title.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

No Brian...we are saying that they are doing what they should be doing...calling attention to an issue that has great significance to their community. They are leaders and that is what leaders should do! Nobody is saying they don't make mistakes...as I said (repeatedly) I was very vocal when Sharpton screwed up the Brawley situation...innocent people suffer when accusations are treated as facts. And the times do change but people change a lot slower! We are the sum of our experiences...like them or not, we need outspoken leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton. There is no justification for the hell the Duke boys have gone through, but it was a corrupt WHITE official who caused their pain and the sins of our fathers who made it an issue!

It was only of "great significance" to their community because she was Black. This should have been about a stripper's rape at a party, no more, no less.

There has been outrage aplenty for the DA, but deflecting the conversation solely towards him ignores the fact that Sharpton and those of his ilk race bait every chance they get....which is one of the most patently racist things one can do. This had nothing to do with her being Black. Her being Black did not cause the Duke guys to fake rape her. Rape should be of great significance to everyone of every color, but there was hardly any racial injustice involved in this case. And every time one of them frames what should be a horrific, yet colorless situation with us vs. them color fits, their credibility will further unravel.

Grits made a point of talking about the DA, because anyone following this case has been repulsed by his actions. But the fact remains that this was not a racial issue in the least, and because Sharpton and Jackson et al want to frame it as one...then let's do that, let's frame it as one. Now that it's been properly framed by these two "leaders" let's get back to them being wrong and not being held accountable for it. I don't suggest I am speaking for Grits or anyone else when I say that, but that's the very reason why this issue has to do with men like that. They **** on the floor, and now they're stepping in it and everybody's too ****ing afraid to call them out for it.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Try focusing...This isn't about Bush. These Bozo's(my apologies to the Clown College) continually insert themselves in situations that don't warrant their intrusion. We don't need Jackson(or Carter) leading a delegation to anywhere to save the world. I was responding to your statements. Actually, I would hold them to a higher stand simply because of the Rev. in front of their names...but that's just me. Their actions decry their title.

No, it's not about Bush...but neither is it about Jackson or Sharpton. Again, when you debate in academia, you would be penalized for jumping off topic...on the net, it's a way of life. Attacking people doesn't address issues...it's merely a smokescreen! I support Jackson and Sharpton and you don't...obviously there will be no agreement here. "Constantly inserting themselves...." Yeah, that's exactly what we heard in the 60's! "The folks around here know their place, it's you outsiders stirring up trouble..." And folks tell me how much things have changed!