inconvenient

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071009/....OxopKEWYLewgF

Just funny how much of a hypocrite this guy is.Why are we in Iraq? The leader we wanted to get out of power is dead.Bush says we are there for the people of Iraq,and for their "freedom." In other words,it isn't convenient at all.He is doing it because "it's the right thing to do." Correct? Now,he wants Congress to vote down this resolution putting the genocide label on the genocide of Armenians by the Turks(during ww1...when people were busy ,and had their heads turned .)Bush doesn't want to hurt relations with Turkey......O.K...Let me just say that(overall..as a group) you can not satisfy these people(Turks.)It's impossible. No group (over a long period of time)has enjoyed a bloody battle more than this group has.It's not like these Armenians weren't slaughtered,the Turks just don't want it to be called "genocide." They say "only 500,000" were slaughtered,and not the 1.5 million that Armenians claim.That's typical Turk stuff("we did it but,it wasn't all that bad as you're saying." )Fact is that they would do the same to Greeks if they thought nobody was watching.No matter what you do,they aren't gunna like America.They aren't real friendly with anyone(except maybe Israel.....yep....too funny.)The biggest error in thinking comes from thinking the relationship between the U.S. AND TURKEY is gunna be good(if we don't pass this bill.) They will simply switch to something else they are pissed about.They aren't saying relations will be good (if we don't pass it.) Appease them,appease them,but you won't satisfy TURKS(a good war with somebody...anybody..is what will make them happy.)

[Danzig]

it's a shame that turkey can't come to grips with its past, it might help to heal some of the lingering hard feelings with part of its population if they admit that their ancestors did indeed participate in genocide. funny that they think it doesn't qualify since 'only' 500k were killed--certainly pales in comparison to the #'s stalin and co managed to put up while in power--but what else do you call it?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's a shame that turkey can't come to grips with its past, it might help to heal some of the lingering hard feelings with part of its population if they admit that their ancestors did indeed participate in genocide. funny that they think it doesn't qualify since 'only' 500k were killed--certainly pales in comparison to the #'s stalin and co managed to put up while in power--but what else do you call it?

Believe it or not,they are so bent that they call it war.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

"Turkey denies that the deaths constituted genocide, says the toll has been inflated and insists that those killed were victims of civil war and unrest."-A.P.


Can you believe these people really think that b.s. can fly? They have been doing this crap for a long time.They need to be like Germany.Just admit it,and move on.They just(for whatever reason) are huge control freaks.They would spend a million bucks to fight a lawsuit (rather than just pay the 100k they know they owe somebody.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Later Wednesday, the House Foreign Affairs Committee voted 27-21 in favor of the measure, sending it to the House floor.

President Bush strongly urged Congress to reject the bill, saying it would do "great harm" to U.S.-Turkish relations. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said that 70 percent of U.S. air cargo headed for Iraq goes through Turkish air space. About a third of the fuel used by the U.S. military in Iraq also goes through Turkey.

"Access to airfields and to the roads and so on in Turkey would very much be put at risk if this resolution passes and Turkey reacts as strongly as we believe they will," Gates said.

Turkey has raised the possibility of impeding logistical and other U.S. military traffic now using the airspace.

I have to say I am amazed the President chose this pathetic way to go on this.It is totally against the moral values prevalent in this country.To let a country guilty of genocide blackmale you?Wow....f'n amazing he chose this path.He already admitted it's genocide,but gives in to the blackmale from these people.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Later Wednesday, the House Foreign Affairs Committee voted 27-21 in favor of the measure, sending it to the House floor.

President Bush strongly urged Congress to reject the bill, saying it would do "great harm" to U.S.-Turkish relations. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said that 70 percent of U.S. air cargo headed for Iraq goes through Turkish air space. About a third of the fuel used by the U.S. military in Iraq also goes through Turkey.

"Access to airfields and to the roads and so on in Turkey would very much be put at risk if this resolution passes and Turkey reacts as strongly as we believe they will," Gates said.

Turkey has raised the possibility of impeding logistical and other U.S. military traffic now using the airspace.

I have to say I am amazed the President chose this pathetic way to go on this.It is totally against the moral values prevalent in this country.To let a country guilty of genocide blackmale you?Wow....f'n amazing he chose this path.He already admitted it's genocide,but gives in to the blackmale from these people.

Kinky

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Kinky

lol....Pathetic.....I used to be able to spell.I am too far away from the time I learned to spell these words.l am gunna have to start using spellcheck.In this particular case,though it wor..................uh,no,I better not go there.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/turkey/sto...189217,00.html

Don't give in to these people.It's a country that we can't begin to understand.The truth has never been of significance to that society.This is a country that calls itself Western,but has very little free speech allowed. Citizens get arrested for saying anything "anti-Turkish." I have emails in my possession that could send this kid (the singer down below on the youtube links) to prison(if I were to send them anonymously to Turk authorities.)You can't say something like f Ataturk(the guy who started the modern-day "SECULAR" Turkey in 1923.) It's basically a very Nationalistic Fascist type country.They can not be trusted at all.Bush is nuts to have sided with these thugs on this genocide bill.Yea,Russians were in the far Eastern part of Turkey FOR A WHILE during WW1.Some ethnic Armenians(who's people had lived in Turkey for a thousand years) sided with the Russians.So,there were wartime atrocities in that warzone.O.K.,but the OTTOMAN TURKS used that as an excuse to start slaughtering Armenians all over the country.In Istanbull they just rounded them up one day and hung the prominent Armenians living there.Istanbull is over on the Western coast of Turkey.That was simply slaughter.It's a nation of thugs.Nobody should be surprised that they aren't willing to admit this stuff.They are expert liars,deceivers,and expert excuse makers.These aren't "friends" as BUSH would like to think.If it wasn't this genocide thing,they would find something else to be upset about.It's what they do.They are good at it.These people even cut off youtube one time when a Greek put up a video making fun of ATATURK. Can you imagine? Trying to control that much? The laws are very vague there(so they can use them very easily to do whatever they want.)Typical would be a law against acts that are against morality...LOL...Seriously,that's what we got here.That's how vague they are.They want to get into the European Union.It will never happen.They haven't done even 5% of the changes needed (as far as human rights/free speech go.)

[Mortimer]

We are being stiffed on rye bread and this is what you people talk about??

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

We are being stiffed on rye bread and this is what you people talk about??

K..ENJOY....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6htOTlQIJs

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

K..ENJOY....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6htOTlQIJs

Oh boy.














Whoa.


















Whew.












Thudder Shudder.














Brown sugar is a commodity I find more attractive than rye bread...all of a sudden.










OOOOOOOOOOO

[SentToStud]

The Armenians rarely catch a break.

[Cannon Shell]

Why does the US Senate vote on resolutions on things that happened in a foreign country 80 years ago? What the hell difference does it make to the people killed? We have no dog in the fight and to stir **** and possibly make things worse in a unstable part of the world for no tangible good, seems so typical of modern day politicians.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why does the US Senate vote on resolutions on things that happened in a foreign country 80 years ago? What the hell difference does it make to the people killed? We have no dog in the fight and to stir **** and possibly make things worse in a unstable part of the world for no tangible good, seems so typical of modern day politicians.

Chucksta, here is the problem your boy GEEDUBB has.He is in Iraq "because it's the right thing to do." It's for "freedom." It's been sold as a moral thing(we long ago got rid of the dictator.)We could get out,but it'd be the "wrong thing to do." Genocide has to be pointed out,or I guarantee you these same people(TURKS) will do this again(if they think they can get away with it.) They hate the KURDS,and the Greeks.This only "recognizes" that something happened.We aren't punishing them.They don't want it to be recognized by the rest of the world.They want to get away with it(without the world ever saying this officially did take place.)This guy does a lot of stuff because it's the moral thing to do,and now he wants to ignore a dog pissing on the furniture.You can't do that.You lose all credibility.We would be like the TURKS(LIARS ,DECEIVERS,OPPORTUNISTS,THUGS.) Another thing you are missing is a point I made previously...You can not satisfy these people.So,don't go down this blackmail road,because it won't end here.There is nothing wrong with simply saying this took place,and it shouldn't ever take place again.Just because he thinks they are his friends doesn't mean it's right to give them a pass(yes they have had a pass on this for 90 years,and it's never been a good time to document it.)

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Chucksta, here is the problem your boy GEEDUBB has.He is in Iraq "because it's the right thing to do." It's for "freedom." It's been sold as a moral thing(we long ago got rid of the dictator.)We could get out,but it'd be the "wrong thing to do." Genocide has to be pointed out,or I guarantee you these same people(TURKS) will do this again(if they think they can get away with it.) They hate the KURDS,and the Greeks.This only "recognizes" that something happened.We aren't punishing them.They don't want it to be recognized by the rest of the world.They want to get away with it(without the world ever saying this officially did take place.)This guy does a lot of stuff because it's the moral thing to do,and now he wants to ignore a dog pissing on the furniture.You can't do that.You lose all credibility.We would be like the TURKS(LIARS ,DECEIVERS,OPPORTUNISTS,THUGS.) Another thing you are missing is a point I made previously...You can not satisfy these people.So,don't go down this blackmail road,because it won't end here.There is nothing wrong with simply saying this took place,and it shouldn't ever take place again.Just because he thinks they are his friends doesn't mean it's right to give them a pass(yes they have had a pass on this for 90 years,and it's never been a good time to document it.)

You sound like both of my late grandfathers; both Armenians from Turkey. One from Keyseri (where my father was born) and the other from Izmir. The last of the "survivors" are in their late 90's. That the reason for the push on this.

[Danzig]

altho this may bring discomfort to the descendants of those who perpetrated the genocide, and to those in power now who don't want to recognize that it happened, it did indeed happen--and as sent so stud said, there was a push for this as there are so few armenians left from that period in time.

it may stir up trouble, but we shouldn't hide from the truth, or be fearful of speaking out.

also, since it was 80 years ago, you could also ask why the Turks are so pissed off about a non binding resolution, and why things will 'never be the same' according to one of the top Turkish pols.

we have a history of standing up for the little guy, or taking sides with the underdog. this is another example of that. better to take a stand imo than to kowtow to thugs and their threats. and i would think that 1.5 million lives lost is certainly something to pass a resolution about.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm reluctant to get into this discussion, as I am half Armenian. But, I will say, hearing about the genocide from my great grandfather was a pretty disturbing. The genocide was a very real thing and while we should not be the world police, basically allowing the Turks to deny it, and not calling them on it is disgusting. I am not surprised.

maybe shouldn't be...but we are. we're the only super power, and other countries look to us and ask for our input--whether they agree with it or not.
also, many say we shouldn't be involved elsewhere, but any time anything erupts, or seems about to be, we are the first ones that people say should 'do something'.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Danzig

maybe shouldn't be...but we are. we're the only super power, and other countries look to us and ask for our input--whether they agree with it or not.
also, many say we shouldn't be involved elsewhere, but any time anything erupts, or seems about to be, we are the first ones that people say should 'do something'.

But any talk of "this is right to do" is really just a side issue. The resolution passed the FR committee 27-21 and it will go to the floor only because Pelosi will have it sent. A nearly identical relolution passed 40-5 (or so ) 2-3 years ago but Boehner - Repub leader - shut it down. There is no magic to why this is going through now; it's pure politics. The U.S. has been cool to Armenia since the '99 regional protection deal Armenia signed with Russia. 4,000 or so Russian troops guard Armenia's borders with Turkey and Iran. Since the late 90's U.S. aid to Armenia has gone from about $110 mil/year to $65 mil.

The architects of this are the Russians who seek to increase their influence in the Caucuses region. The resolution itself is an ok thing but it's nothing more than Democrats undermining Bush at the behest of Russia. The Armenians are just going along for the ride.

[Danzig]

yeah, i know--it all comes down to politics. but i think bush is on the wrong side of it this time. he wants the easy way, instead of what's right in this case. it would be easier to kowtow to the turks in this regard--and of course as a non binding resolution, it really doesn't mean a whole lot. but calling something what it is shouldn't be wrong. and this certainly shouldn't have a lasting effect on our relations with the turks. that's just laughable. but then, maybe once upon a time, george the third probably thought we'd be eternal enemies.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I can tell you exactly why the Turks are slamming their spoons so hard against the top of their highchairs. They are not at all used to their sins being talked about. It's against the law to talk(in any way) negatively about TURKEY.They are not equipped to deal with being talked about.To not be able to "shut somebody up right now" is simply freaking them out.This comes with zero sanctions or penalties.It's simply free speech.The evidence will show that the Turks made Armenians march (without food or water) down towards the heat of Syria.This was away from any fighting between Turks n' Russians/Armenians in Eastern Turkey.When the rest of the World had their eyes on WW1,this is what the Turks were up to. I wouldn't be thrilled about my ethnic group doing it,but they are simply nuts to keep denying they did it.