W/E Beyers: Frost Giant 106; Mast Track 105

[Kasept]

Suburban (BEL): Frost Giant 106
HOL Gold Cup (HOL): Mast Track 105
Saylorville (Prm): Miss Macy Sue 105
Levine (PHA): Eternal Star 103
American (HOL): Whatsthescript 100

King Edward/WO: Royal Oath 99
A Gleam (HOL): Dearest Trickski 98
IA Derby (PrM): Tiz Now Tiz Then 98
IA Oaks/PrM: Storm Mesa 96
Landaluce (HOL): Emmy Darling 94
Boiling Springs (MTH): My Princess Jess 94
Mother Goose (BEL): Music Note 93

Debutante (CD): Garden District 77

FULL LIST...

Here are the winning Beyer Speed Figures for last week's stakes races:

*Beautiful Day (Del): Sweet Hope (J. Jones/J. Rose) - 109

*Suburban (Bel): Frost Giant (R. Dutrow Jr./R. Rodriguez) - 106
*Hollywood Gold Cup (Hol): Mast Track (R. Frankel/T. Baze) - 105
*Saylorville (PrM): Miss Macy Sue (K. Von Hemel/E. Razo Jr.) - 105
*Donald LeVine Memorial (Pha): Eternal Star (M. Trombetta/J. Pimentel) - 103
*American (Hol): Whatsthescript - Ire (J. Sadler/I. Enriquez) - 101
*Prairie Meadows Cornhusker (PrM): Wayzata Bay (J. Hicklin/I. Ocampo) - 100

*Iowa Sprint (PrM): Native Ruler (C. Richard/I. Ocampo) - 99
*King Edward (WO): Royal Oath (M. Casse/P. Husbands) - 99
*A Gleam (Hol): Dearest Trickski (J. Sadler/M. Smith) - 98
*Iowa Derby (PrM): Tiz Now Tiz Then (E. Harty/M. Mena) - 98
*Beverly Hills (Hol): Black Mamba - NZ (J. Sadler/G. Gomez) - 96
*Iowa Oaks (PrM): Storm Mesa (W. Calhoun/E. Martin Jr.) - 96
*Caress (Bel): Stormy West (W. Mott/K. Desormeaux) - 96
*Iowa Distaff (PrM): Fancy Fusaichi (W. Mott/J. Leparoux) - 95
*Lighthouse (Mth): Devil House (B. Levine/D. Centeno) - 94
*Landaluce (Hol): Emmy Darling (J. Sadler/D. Flores) - 94
*Captain Squire (Hol): Leonides (V. Cerin/R. Migliore) - 94
*Boiling Springs (Mth): My Princess Jess (B. Tagg/J. Bravo) - 94
*Mother Goose (Bel): Music Note (S. bin Suroor/J. Castellano) - 93
*Chicago Breeders' Cup (AP): Leah's Secret (T. Pletcher/R. Douglas) - 92
*Alamedan (Pln): Saratoga's Magic (J. Hollendorfer/R. Gonzalez) - 92
*Elmont (Bel): I Lost My Choo (P. Serpe/E. Prado) - 91
*Heckofaralph (Crc): Dukes Flying Tiger (K. Ziadie/C. Olivero) - 91

*Daniel Van Clief (Cnl): Frisky Thunder (J. Murphy/E. Camacho) - 89
*Spruce Fir (Mth): Open Skies (T. Hills/J. Bravo) - 89
*Astoria (Bel): Bold Union (K. Breen/S. Elliott) - 89
*Cleveland Gold Cup (Tdn): Marble Cliff (W. Cowans/L. Martinez Jr.) - 88
*Alysheba (LS): Real Appeal (T. Amoss/M. Berry) - 87
*Liberada (Crc): Saint Knows (J. Calascibetta/C. Olivero) - 85
*Caught in The Rain (Pha): Tuff Partners (K. DeMasi/D. Mello) - 85
*Tacoma (EmD): Gallon (J. Penney/J. Gutierrez) - 83
*St. Georges (Del): Populist (G. Capuano/T. Dunkelberger) - 83
*Wild Rose (NP): Tanika (B. Brown/S. Heiler) - 82
*San Juan County Commissioners (SRP): Mr Charlypotatoes (T. Klenakis/R. Jaime) - 81
*Everett Nevin Alameda County Futurity (Pln): Squallcreek (S. Miyadi/L. Martinez) - 81

*Overnight Allowance (SRP): More Accord (J. Marr/K. Tohill) - 79
*Debutante (CD): Garden District (T. Pletcher/R. Albarado) - 77
*Bison City (WO): Nicki Knew (K. Attard/J. McAleney) - 77
*Tremont (Bel): Dagnabit (R. Dutrow Jr./C. Velasquez) - 76
*Rise Jim (Suf): Petesamassbred (C. Fontana/J. Marcano) - 74
*Dine (SRP): Elegant Time (G. Green/A. Juarez Jr.) - 72
*Muscogee (Creek) Nation (FMT): Reel Chrome (K. Craddock/F. Wethey Jr.) - 71

[Betsy]

wow, the Mother Goose only got a 93? I find it hard to believe that, no matter PS's problems, Music Note actually regressed several lengths off her allowance win. Wow, that's a terribly mediocre figure

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Betsy

wow, the Mother Goose only got a 93? I find it hard to believe that, no matter PS's problems, Music Note actually regressed several lengths off her allowance win. Wow, that's a terribly mediocre figure

149.3.... thats the reasson i think proud spell wins without trouble, its not like music note finished full of run or anything.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Betsy

wow, the Mother Goose only got a 93? I find it hard to believe that, no matter PS's problems, Music Note actually regressed several lengths off her allowance win. Wow, that's a terribly mediocre figure

Music Note also had a pretty good stumble out of the gate, and may not have been at her best because of it.

[parsixfarms]

In light of the fact that the Suburban was such an ugly race, doesn't the 106 Beyer for Frost Giant seem too high.

The track at Belmont was no where near as slow as it has been recently, as evidenced by a modest NY-bred filly like Rizzi's Twist running 6F in 1:10.1.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Betsy

wow, the Mother Goose only got a 93? I find it hard to believe that, no matter PS's problems, Music Note actually regressed several lengths off her allowance win. Wow, that's a terribly mediocre figure

Any word on Proud Spell's condition? I wonder if she won't be on the shelf a great while following this. She didn't look to good down the lane and was ducking in and out down the stretch (which I suppose is why she got DQ'd).

Not for nothing, but sometimes horses stumble at the start, not because of bad luck, but because they already have something wrong with them to begin with. In that regard, considering Music Note also stumbled, its not tough to swallow a low figure for the race (not to mention she hails from Godolphin).

Not that any of that matters anyways, cuz how many AP Indy fillies ever win another stakes race after their first? I think Secret Status might have won two.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Music Note also had a pretty good stumble out of the gate, and may not have been at her best because of it.

I thought Music Note had a nice trip. She actually broke cleanest of the top three finishers - and was out in the clear at Belmont...where you always want to be in slow paced races.

I would think the pokey pace had more to do with the final time lacking than the winners trip.

[the_fat_man]

As things would typically work, the headon replay on Calracing.com JUMPS forward a few frames immediately after the break; so we can't see how they settle. This has been an award winning meet in terms of video quality for NYRA thus far. I hesitate in continuing to call them on the poor quality as I'm slowly beginning to realize that they really don't care and the video could thus get significantly worse (as it has been).

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I thought Music Note had a nice trip. She actually broke cleanest of the top three finishers - and was out in the clear at Belmont...where you always want to be in slow paced races.

I would think the pokey pace had more to do with the final time lacking than the winners trip.

she stumbled, thats all i'm saying. I guess i wouldn't call that a clean break, although i agree that she had an otherwise clean trip and about the pokey pace.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Music Note also had a pretty good stumble out of the gate, and may not have been at her best because of it.

I agree - and her stumble, plus lost shoe, is being completely overlooked by those who can only see Proud Spell's trouble. It seems to me that because PS was expected to win, MN's win is looked at as a fluke. I thought Music Note ran great on Saturday - I don't know how they calculate figures, but I really don't see how she regressed. I know it's hard to compare races at different distances, but 1:49 and change seems pretty comparable to 2:01 and change, certainly close enough that there wouldn't be a BSF difference of 13 points.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Any word on Proud Spell's condition? I wonder if she won't be on the shelf a great while following this. She didn't look to good down the lane and was ducking in and out down the stretch (which I suppose is why she got DQ'd).

Not for nothing, but sometimes horses stumble at the start, not because of bad luck, but because they already have something wrong with them to begin with. In that regard, considering Music Note also stumbled, its not tough to swallow a low figure for the race (not to mention she hails from Godolphin).

Not that any of that matters anyways, cuz how many AP Indy fillies ever win another stakes race after their first? I think Secret Status might have won two.

I think I'll avoid an argument about AP Indy ..........but I guess the stumbles could have had something to do with the low figure. Regardless, she's a very good filly.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I think I'll avoid an argument about AP Indy ..........but I guess the stumbles could have had something to do with the low figure. Regardless, she's a very good filly.

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

Zaftig.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I know it's hard to compare races at different distances, but 1:49 and change seems pretty comparable to 2:01 and change, certainly close enough that there wouldn't be a BSF difference of 13 points.

You are wrong.

11.83 seconds was the difference in times between the two races. That's a pretty significant difference between those two distances - even more so when you factor in that the 9f race is around one-turn and the 10 furlong race starts in the middle of a turn.

The figure for the Mother Goose is fairly cut and dry.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number.... i thought music note looked good, and can't say that with a clean break and trip that proud spell would have won--can't say that i've seen anyone suggest a different finish with a different trip.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number.... i thought music note looked good, and can't say that with a clean break and trip that proud spell would have won--can't say that i've seen anyone suggest a different finish with a different trip.

i thought music note looked ok at best... and i think proud spell wins with a clean trip, music note did nothing to blow me away or make me think she's better then.... proud spell, ginger brew and a few other very good 3 yr old fillies

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number....

Here's a simple way to look at the relationship between 9f and 10f times on the dirt at Belmont Park if you want to assume that an 11.83 second difference in time translates to equal performances.

Here are some past final times of Belmont Breeders Cup Races involving well known horses at those distances.

1995: Inside Information (1:46.15) Cigar (1:59.58) Difference: 13.43 seconds

2001: Unbridled Elaine (1:49.21) Tiznow (2:00.62) Difference: 11.41 seconds

2005: Pleasant Home (1:48.34) Saint Liam (2:01.49) Difference: 13.15 seconds

Assuming that 11.83 seconds is the exact relationship in time between the two distances ... we can conclude that:

* Inside Information ran exactly 1.60 seconds faster than Cigar - meaning she ran 8 lengths faster than him in his perfect season capping win.

* Unbridled Elaine ran exactly 0.42 seconds slower than Tiznow - meaning she ran just 2 lengths slower than him.

* Pleasant Home ran exactly 1.32 seconds faster than Saint Liam - meaning she ran 6.5 lengths faster than him.

That gives you an idea that the relationship in time between the two distances is obviously not even close to 11 4/5th seconds.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i thought music note looked ok at best... and i think proud spell wins with a clean trip, music note did nothing to blow me away or make me think she's better then.... proud spell, ginger brew and a few other very good 3 yr old fillies

What has Proud Spell, Ginger Brew, or any other "very good" 3 YO fillies done to make you think Music Note isn't just as good as them?

Proud Spell has never run a fast race. Her best efforts to date were on the slop where a number of fillies behind her had trouble and with an absolutely dream trip in a match race with a filly who wants no part of a mile and a sixteenth.

Zaftig is the only filly who has done anything really "impressive" this year. At least Music Note looks like she has potential. The figure is meaningless because of the pace in my opinion. Let's see what happens in the Alabama.

NT

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

you're right - I've got to let it go. She won the race and we move on to the next one.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number.... i thought music note looked good, and can't say that with a clean break and trip that proud spell would have won--can't say that i've seen anyone suggest a different finish with a different trip.

I can't deny that, Danzig. My main problem is making too big a deal out of a # when I saw the race with my own eyes and I know that Music Note looked good. I'm always looking for the Beyer fig to somehow justify a winning performance of one of my favorites instead of just enjoying it, as if racing can be reduced merely to a number.