HEGARTY: November handle down 9.7%

[Kasept]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/100311.html
November handle down nearly 10%..

Now, how much of that was lack of access (Churchill/Hollywood) is the question...

[Travis Stone]

Interesting question...

November's decline is 9.70% versus the year-to-date of 6.17%. My guess is the election discussions, economic headlines, holiday season, rising unemployments rates etc. is more of a contributing factor than signal distribution. Worded another way, are the distribution woes worth the $104 million decline year-over-year?

[robfla]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Interesting question...

November's decline is 9.70% versus the year-to-date of 6.17%. My guess is the election discussions, economic headlines, holiday season, rising unemployments rates etc. is more of a contributing factor than signal distribution. Worded another way, are the distribution woes worth the $104 million decline year-over-year?

Speaking for myself, who is the average casual player, signal distribution has EVERYTHING to do with my handle decline.

Limited or no access to CRC, CD, OSA/HP

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by robfla

Speaking for myself, who is the average casual player, signal distribution has EVERYTHING to do with my handle decline.

Limited or no access to CRC, CD, OSA/HP

And I'm sure you're not alone. It's very tough to gauge because virtually everything measureable in our society and economy right now is down. I think there are a lot of individuals like yourself who have backed-off as a result, but at the same time, I'm sure there are plenty who just find another track to play.

[Cannon Shell]

I think its definitely polytrack

[MaTH716]

I believe for a week last month that there was this huge handicapping contest on line somewhere. The horse racing world so abuzz and people were following it so intently that they stopped betting for the entire week. I can't believe that there was no mention of it around here.

[smuthg]

I think that number is somewhat skewed by offshore wagering. Many of the horseplayers I know, bet through Diamond Sports or some other offshore book. As a resident of the great state of Missouri, I have no choice but to go offshore, but I know of several guys who play $10k to $15k a week in states where they could use TwinSpires or Xpressbet, but don't because of the rebates and no taxes.

[Dr. Watson]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think its definitely polytrack

no chance. polytrack makes every horse impossible to eliminate. when every horse has a good chance to win it means more handle not less. plus you always have to use the all button in your exactas if you can afford em.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by robfla

Speaking for myself, who is the average casual player, signal distribution has EVERYTHING to do with my handle decline.

Limited or no access to CRC, CD, OSA/HP

Same here.

My handle is down 100% because of my disgust with the ADW situation.

For me, it has nothing to do with the economy, the election, the weather, or anything else that the industry can cook up as an excuse....it is ALL signal distribution.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Same here.

My handle is down 100% because of my disgust with the ADW situation.

For me, it has nothing to do with the economy, the election, the weather, or anything else that the industry can cook up as an excuse....it is ALL signal distribution.

agreed..they are killing themselves..at least nyra is hooked in.or it would be a total cluster f

[Swale84]

I don't believe that the tracks or the horsemen recognize the value and impact of the ADW players

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Same here.

My handle is down 100% because of my disgust with the ADW situation.

For me, it has nothing to do with the economy, the election, the weather, or anything else that the industry can cook up as an excuse....it is ALL signal distribution.

I can't bet the races -
I don't wach them. I didn't know Churchill was running 90% of the time it was.

Did they shutter Calder? might as well

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Swale84

I don't believe that the tracks or the horsemen recognize the value and impact of the ADW players

Actually, it's the other way around... The intensity of their confrontation indicates they completely recognize the value and impact of the ADW platform system and its' long-term importance. The battle over the smallest incremental percentages confirms that. Both parties know that their revenue is going to be coming more and more from ADW, and any ground lost now will never be reclaimed.

[Rudeboyelvis]

The economy has definitely affected my playing this year in that I'm basically enjoying a double workload due to downsizing and don't have near enough time to handicap as I usually do.


I will figure out a way to make sure I'm playing Tampa daily though

[Swale84]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Actually, it's the other way around... The intensity of their confrontation indicates they completely recognize the value and impact of the ADW platform system and its' long-term importance. The battle over the smallest incremental percentages confirms that. Both parties know that their revenue is going to be coming more and more from ADW, and any ground lost now will never be reclaimed.

The battles have been going on for too long now and many players are turning away in frustration. The tracks may be losing more ground than they realize.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Same here.

My handle is down 100% because of my disgust with the ADW situation.

For me, it has nothing to do with the economy, the election, the weather, or anything else that the industry can cook up as an excuse....it is ALL signal distribution.

The ADW debacle is just that. The fact that there has been an economic downturn only puts a little lipstick on the pig so to say. The industry seems content with putting itself at a distinct disadvantage in terms of ADW.

I like to compare the whole ADW situation to specialty retailers about 8-10 years ago. The web provided a whole new mechanism to bring their products to customers. To survive and thrive, businesses needed to augment their in store product with online shopping. Horse racing has long faced a steady on track live handle decline. The web provides an enormous opportunity for growth to grow handles, increase purses, etc...not everyone can get to an OTB, not everyone has a local greyhound track to wager at.
Just like not everyone who wanted Gap jeans or American Eagle gear could get to a store. Bettors can not get to a window to wager.

The virtual "betting window" is such a huge opportunity, where if done correctly, opens so many avenues to consumers. Just like online shopping opened doors to many shoppers. Retailers do not shut off taking orders anywhere BUT the state where their headquarters is. Why on earth do horseman groups do so?

Would retailers only allow online consumers shop for pants on Black Friday? Not shirts, not socks, not shoes, just pants. What a insane statement that is. But that horse racing equivalent is the fact that online consumers could not bet the Kentucky Derby card this year with the exception of the race itself. Racing's biggest day on it's most grand of stages.

Most people who want to bet can find their way around ADW disputes, whether it be on track bets, off shore, simulcast, OTB, whatever, and that many sustain for awhile. But with out complete growth in ADW the sport will always be short changing itself. Not to mention it will always continue to piss off some of the sports biggest supporters.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

And I'm sure you're not alone. It's very tough to gauge because virtually everything measureable in our society and economy right now is down. I think there are a lot of individuals like yourself who have backed-off as a result, but at the same time, I'm sure there are plenty who just find another track to play.

Might explain why I'm watching Penn National on twinspires.com right now, playing the pick-4.

Don't fret I have 5 tickets alive in it haha

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

The ADW debacle is just that. The fact that there has been an economic downturn only puts a little lipstick on the pig so to say. The industry seems content with putting itself at a distinct disadvantage in terms of ADW.

I like to compare the whole ADW situation to specialty retailers about 8-10 years ago. The web provided a whole new mechanism to bring their products to customers. To survive and thrive, businesses needed to augment their in store product with online shopping. Horse racing has long faced a steady on track live handle decline. The web provides an enormous opportunity for growth to grow handles, increase purses, etc...not everyone can get to an OTB, not everyone has a local greyhound track to wager at.
Just like not everyone who wanted Gap jeans or American Eagle gear could get to a store. Bettors can not get to a window to wager.

The virtual "betting window" is such a huge opportunity, where if done correctly, opens so many avenues to consumers. Just like online shopping opened doors to many shoppers. Retailers do not shut off taking orders anywhere BUT the state where their headquarters is. Why on earth do horseman groups do so?

Would retailers only allow online consumers shop for pants on Black Friday? Not shirts, not socks, not shoes, just pants. What a insane statement that is. But that horse racing equivalent is the fact that online consumers could not bet the Kentucky Derby card this year with the exception of the race itself. Racing's biggest day on it's most grand of stages.

Most people who want to bet can find their way around ADW disputes, whether it be on track bets, off shore, simulcast, OTB, whatever, and that many sustain for awhile. But with out complete growth in ADW the sport will always be short changing itself. Not to mention it will always continue to piss off some of the sports biggest supporters.

First..minor point, but ironically, this is probably a good time for this to be happening. While the ADW situation is certainly contributing to the handle decline, it is probably affecting a lesser percentage than if business were booming, relatively speaking.

Second, the above analysis just isn't comparable. Retailers control their own profit structure when they sell on line.Even if they sell through Amazon or a third party, they still determine their profit margin. To Steve's point, this fight is because horseman, tracks and ADW suppliers DO understand what is at stake. It is narrowminded to just suggest that the Horseman are at fault for not accepting what the tracks and ADWs want. There will always be a symbiotic relationship between the three factors, but for the horseman ( and we're not talking Pletcher and Assmussen here) do you really think they are losing sleep because the bettor can't wager on CD? If the deal in place doesn't make financial sense in the first place, then why continue to support a losing cause?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

First..minor point, but ironically, this is probably a good time for this to be happening. While the ADW situation is certainly contributing to the handle decline, it is probably affecting a lesser percentage than if business were booming, relatively speaking.

Second, the above analysis just isn't comparable. Retailers control their own profit structure when they sell on line.Even if they sell through Amazon or a third party, they still determine their profit margin. To Steve's point, this fight is because horseman, tracks and ADW suppliers DO understand what is at stake. It is narrowminded to just suggest that the Horseman are at fault for not accepting what the tracks and ADWs want. There will always be a symbiotic relationship between the three factors, but for the horseman ( and we're not talking Pletcher and Assmussen here) do you really think they are losing sleep because the bettor can't wager on CD? If the deal in place doesn't make financial sense in the first place, then why continue to support a losing cause?

To this point, I think racetracks view the industry as a pyramid where horseman and breeders view the industry like a triangle (in terms of how they view power)

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

no chance. polytrack makes every horse impossible to eliminate. when every horse has a good chance to win it means more handle not less. plus you always have to use the all button in your exactas if you can afford em.

Huh?