The high altitude explaination

[Port Conway Lane]

I'm familiar with this theory concerning horses shipping to New Mexico and not performing up to their expectations because of the high altitude but HRTV takes the cake in suggesting this could explain the performance of MTB in the Derby.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

I'm familiar with this theory concerning horses shipping to New Mexico and not performing up to their expectations because of the high altitude but HRTV takes the cake in suggesting this could explain the performance of MTB in the Derby.

lol

good thing he's not a baseball player for the rockies.

[sumitas]

Haven't the Ethiopian marathoners trained for years at high altitude ? They seem to think it's helps their running .

http://equinealtitudetraining.com/

The trainers here in AZ move their stock to the Prescott area before shipping to Fairplex. they go from 7000 ft to sea level.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Haven't the Ethiopian marathoners trained for years at high altitude ? They seem to think it's helps their running .

I've never doubted the theory whether it's applied to humans or animals.It sounds logical to me and probably has merit.
Just to clarify what was said on HRTV the two hosts at the time presented information from a woman who has scientific information regarding training of thoroughbreds at high altitudes,more specifically a Los Alomos training center where MTB trained and the hosts added credence to that theory to possibly explain yesterday's performance.

I guess there are more implausible explainations out there and I'd be more inclined to bite if they ran yesterdays Derby in the rockies.

[MISTERGEE]

what was the other 18 horses excuse

[hi_im_god]

there's no debate high altitude training benefits athletes but it isn't a magic bullet.

a few weeks working out at altitude doesn't turn urkel into will smith.

[Riot]

Yes, the altitude effect is real, and lasts about a week, and has been well-documented in humans for a few decades now. I've used it to advantage running my dogs competitively. It works for all species. I don't know how long MTB has been at Churchill, though.

The little horse ran well, it cantered along at the back of the pack with no mud in the face until Borel said "go" after getting slammed and backed out, out of the gate. He'd been not fast but training okay at Churchill.

The plan was to have the horse just off the pace, but Borel adjusted when his plans were changed for him five strides out of the gate when the horse got mushed.

The closest-to-rail path (not 1 1/2 off) was golden and hard (look at the Derby again and watch the same move as MTB the 5, Hold Me Back, made along the backstretch to move up lengths, fast - he moved too early, though, and was done at the top of the stretch).

Nobody in the connections expected the little horse to be able to get better than 6-5-4, but Borel rode him perfectly, and said he was as surprised as anybody when the little horse kept coming on.

Somebody said Len had the horse fast on Rags. I have the TG sheets and Rags (but early, so he's not in there), I think the horse moved up a few points like many, many previous spring 3-year-olds, and the perfect trip on the hard true rail by the jock added a few lengths. Borel said the horse was little and floated over the ground. That's a well-known thing, too, that little horses don't seem to sink in the mud as the larger ones do.

No, I didn't have him, and picked others to fill out the super.

I agree with MMSC in a different thread, a "perfect storm" of opportunity happened.

Congrats to Borel for a perfect, intelligent ride, adjusting second to second, congrats to the connections for having the horse ready for Borel, what a terrific Derby story! Let's hope he goes in the Belmont.

[Left Bank]

I don't think having two races at 3789 ft of altitude has anything to do with his win.Thinking this is absolutely ridiculous.
If that was the case everyone would be shipping in and out of Arapahoe Park

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, the altitude effect is real, and lasts about a week, and has been well-documented in humans for a few decades now. I've used it to advantage running my dogs competitively. It works for all species. I don't know how long MTB has been at Churchill, though.

The little horse ran well, it cantered along at the back of the pack with no mud in the face until Borel said "go" after getting slammed and backed out, out of the gate. He'd been not fast but training okay at Churchill.

The plan was to have the horse just off the pace, but Borel adjusted when his plans were changed for him five strides out of the gate when the horse got mushed.

The closest-to-rail path (not 1 1/2 off) was golden and hard (look at the Derby again and watch the same move as MTB the 5, Hold Me Back, made along the backstretch to move up lengths, fast - he moved too early, though, and was done at the top of the stretch).

Nobody in the connections expected the little horse to be able to get better than 6-5-4, but Borel rode him perfectly, and said he was as surprised as anybody when the little horse kept coming on.

Somebody said Len had the horse fast on Rags. I have the TG sheets and Rags (but early, so he's not in there), I think the horse moved up a few points like many, many previous spring 3-year-olds, and the perfect trip on the hard true rail by the jock added a few lengths. Borel said the horse was little and floated over the ground. That's a well-known thing, too, that little horses don't seem to sink in the mud as the larger ones do.

No, I didn't have him, and picked others to fill out the super.

I agree with MMSC in a different thread, a "perfect storm" of opportunity happened.

Congrats to Borel for a perfect, intelligent ride, adjusting second to second, congrats to the connections for having the horse ready for Borel, what a terrific Derby story! Let's hope he goes in the Belmont.

Faster than the Beyers, yes. Fast, no. He had run a 5 top TG in the Sunland Derby, which was the 15th of 19 best last fig, and 19th of 19 for best lifetime fig. I think people would have been a lot less shocked if it were the other Birdstone.

[dagolfer33]

This could all explain why La Derby winners cannot show anything at the Derby.....horses in NO are under sea level

[philcski]

Originally Posted by dagolfer33

This could all explain why La Derby winners cannot show anything at the Derby.....horses in NO are under sea level

LOL.

The 2003 Louisiana Derby was a key race. Since then... not so much.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by dagolfer33

This could all explain why La Derby winners cannot show anything at the Derby.....horses in NO are under sea level

In Beyer's post-Derby article on washingtonpost.com, he ranks MTB's win right up there with Canonero II's win in the '71 Derby as the most "mystifying" result that he has seen in a major stakes race.

He didn't mention anything about 'altitude' in the article, but it is interesting to note that this Canonero beast also prepped for the Derby at altitude in Venezuela.