MTB and Turf

[FlBred]

Does anyone think he will ever be tried on turf? I think his running style will be better suited for the turf at the 1 1/8 + distance.

If tried on turf, how does everyone think he would do?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by FlBred

Does anyone think he will ever be tried on turf? I think his running style will be better suited for the turf at the 1 1/8 + distance.

If tried on turf, how does everyone think he would do?

I think he'll be tried on turf but won't be that good on it. He'll be best in 10 furlongs races with a lot of pace and a patient rider, unfortunately there aren't many of those (10 furlong races and patient riders).

[hockey2315]

His turf tomlinson is very low - 201.

[the_fat_man]

This is quickest, most nimble, footed 3 year old out there (that's not already sprinting on the turf). Who cares what Tomlinson has to say?

This isn't a horse that pushes a big gear, like Curlin, and would thus have a problem 'powering' his way on the grass. This is a one run animal that is very athletic. With a PATIENT jock that makes a TIMELY run, he'd be very, very good. Imagine him at AP, for example, with all those late collapsing races.


In fact, this horse is being wasted on dirt. He should be running on turf and turflike POLY.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

This is quickest, most nimble, footed 3 year old out there (that's not already sprinting on the turf). Who cares what Tomlinson has to say?

This isn't a horse that pushes a big gear, like Curlin, and would thus have a problem 'powering' his way on the grass. This is a one run animal that is very athletic. With a PATIENT jock that makes a TIMELY run, he'd be very, very good. Imagine him at AP, for example, with all those late collapsing races.


In fact, this horse is being wasted on dirt. He should be running on turf and turflike POLY.

Let's get a campaign going to bring him back to Woodbine!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

This is quickest, most nimble, footed 3 year old out there (that's not already sprinting on the turf). Who cares what Tomlinson has to say?

This isn't a horse that pushes a big gear, like Curlin, and would thus have a problem 'powering' his way on the grass. This is a one run animal that is very athletic. With a PATIENT jock that makes a TIMELY run, he'd be very, very good. Imagine him at AP, for example, with all those late collapsing races.


In fact, this horse is being wasted on dirt. He should be running on turf and turflike POLY.

wat

[letswastemoney]

His beyers were pretty low at Woodbine. I suspect his wins there was more due to inferior competition rather than a definitive answer of whether Mine that Bird likes synthetics

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

His beyers were pretty low at Woodbine. I suspect his wins there was more due to inferior competition rather than a definitive answer of whether Mine that Bird likes synthetics

Outside of BEYERVILLE, there's the 'wipeout'. 2 of MTB's 4 wins at WO were 'wipe-outs'. Not an easy thing to do -- especially up there. He handled the poly there, for sure. Of course, handling the poly up there is no guarantee that he'll handle the turf, as, of all the tracks, this is the one where horses that handle one surface don't necessarily handle the other.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

wat

Got back to your figs, Bro

[wac]

Ive been thinking about this since the preakness and belmont the horse does seem to have a gear that when he is "on" really goes from 2nd to 5th in a hurry and i was always under the impression that for a horse to be good on T they had to have that quick acceleration that he seems to have. I would kind of like to see it to be honest. I mean he is a gelding so who knows what direction they will go. but count me in as wanting to see him take a try with it.

[parsixfarms]

Only one turf winner from his first four dams, and I wouldn't expect Birdstone to be a turf influence.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by FlBred

Does anyone think he will ever be tried on turf? I think his running style will be better suited for the turf at the 1 1/8 + distance.

If tried on turf, how does everyone think he would do?

I think he is good where he is, he's handled poly before so that is not a question, what he needs is a regular rider and better placements from his human connections to give him a better chance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think he is good where he is, he's handled poly before so that is not a question, what he needs is a regular rider and better placements from his human connections to give him a better chance.

i thought the west va derby was a good place to run him, even tho i was surprised they chose that route. he's a victim of his running style, not his trainer and owners choice of race. hell, he won the ky derby-it's not as tho on his day, and with the right set up, he can't win...

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i thought the west va derby was a good place to run him, even tho i was surprised they chose that route. he's a victim of his running style, not his trainer and owners choice of race. hell, he won the ky derby-it's not as tho on his day, and with the right set up, he can't win...

Not disagreeing with his running style, he is what he is; however he seems to be better where he can run around tight turns when he can use his agility and accelleration. Mountaineer and Belmont are not places I ever expected him to do well. If he does go to the Travers and he still has anything left in the tank, I would expect him to run better if he can get a jockey that understands his running style.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Got back to your figs, Bro

listen, I don't disagree that he would be better on turf. but the way you're describing him as "the most nimble footed 3yo out there" sounds ridiculous and ostentatious. he'd be better on turf because he is what he is- a plodder who has one extended burst of speed for 2-3 furlongs, which is what excels in turf racing.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

listen, I don't disagree that he would be better on turf. but the way you're describing him as "the most nimble footed 3yo out there" sounds ridiculous and ostentatious. he'd be better on turf because he is what he is- a plodder who has one extended burst of speed for 2-3 furlongs, which is what excels in turf racing.

What excels in turf racing is horses that are nimble footed. For a good example watch this horse scoot through on the rail in the Derby. Watch him switch leads and back again in less than 2 strides midstretch. Dirt horses are the ones that are plodders. They have slow feet. They can't switch leads as quickly as turf horses do. Watch a typical turf sprint. Note how the fields are typically tighter packed than most dirt races and how a good number of horses are switching leads repeatedly as they're in tight. Note how horses accelerate after drafting.

You see any of this on the dirt? Note how your trip handicappers are always making excuses for horses that are inside, in tight, between/behind, etc. This is for dirt horses. This **** doesn't apply on the turf, where these things are positives not negatives because these horses are, yes, nimble enough to overcome them.

I realize there's a prejudice towards turf horses here. That they're somehow beneath dirt horses. Well, the best dirt horse in the country last year got humbled both on the turf and poly so maybe there's not that much to that. And this trend will continue later this year at the BC.

You watch any races?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

What excels in turf racing is horses that are nimble footed. For a good example watch this horse scoot through on the rail in the Derby. Watch him switch leads and back again in less than 2 strides midstretch. Dirt horses are the ones that are plodders. They have slow feet. They can't switch leads as quickly as turf horses do. Watch a typical turf sprint. Note how the fields are typically tighter packed than most dirt races and how a good number of horses are switching leads repeatedly as they're in tight. Note how horses accelerate after drafting.

You see any of this on the dirt? Note how your trip handicappers are always making excuses for horses that are inside, in tight, between/behind, etc. This is for dirt horses. This **** doesn't apply on the turf, where these things are positives not negatives because these horses are, yes, nimble enough to overcome them.

I realize there's a prejudice towards turf horses here. That they're somehow beneath dirt horses. Well, the best dirt horse in the country last year got humbled both on the turf and poly so maybe there's not that much to that. And this trend will continue later this year at the BC.

You watch any races?

So by your accounts, the most athletic and nimble horse I've ever seen, Afleet Alex, would have been a superstar on turf? It's possible, especially considering his breeding, but unfortunately we were robbed of seeing him too early. How do you explain the best turf filly in the country being a big lumbering sort with a devastating burst of acceleration?

By the way, switching leads multiple times is NOT a good thing in most cases.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by philcski

How do you explain the best turf filly in the country being a big lumbering sort with a devastating burst of acceleration?

I'd have never described Pure Clan that way.