Democrats in Disarray

[pointman]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34783136...s-capitol_hill

Incredible how the Democrats have no idea what to do with the power they have gained, no surprise that many are already running for the hills (i.e. Dodd) and not running for re-election. Here is the next one to go and it can't be soon enough, I just wish Pelosi could have been part of this conversation so she can take herself out with Reid! Talk about out of touch with the American people!

It amazes me that Reid continues to shove this garbage healthcare bill down American's throats when his own constitutiency is making it clear that they are ready to boot him!

[SOREHOOF]

No doubt it's a double standard. Always is. Slimy Harry isn't going anywhere til this term is finished. If Pelosi wasn't forced out for lying about being told by the CIA about waterboarding, then this is nothing. I just think it is frikkin hilarious that he got bit by his own "political correctness" snake for merely speaking his own personal opinion.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

No doubt it's a double standard. Always is. Slimy Harry isn't going anywhere til this term is finished. If Pelosi wasn't forced out for lying about being told by the CIA about waterboarding, then this is nothing. I just think it is frikkin hilarious that he got bit by his own "political correctness" snake for merely speaking his own personal opinion.

The real problem with what he said is the stupidity on two fronts, first for actually thinking something so stupid, second for being stupid enough to actually say it to a reporter. Can't see how it is any different than the Lott situation and the result should be the same.

[SOREHOOF]

Probably more white people pi ss ed off about it than blacks. He lacks common sense. The Dems are the champs at getting away with the same things they pile on the Repubs for, but neither party will ever learn. If Palin said that she'd be done.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by pointman

The real problem with what he said is the stupidity on two fronts, first for actually thinking something so stupid, second for being stupid enough to actually say it to a reporter. Can't see how it is any different than the Lott situation and the result should be the same.

you don't see any difference between a comment on the electability of a black candidate and someone suggesting the u.s. would have been better off electing an avowed segregationist president?

they're the same thing?

i think one reason republican's are so lost when it comes to race is because they might sincerely believe this. reid's comment was stupid. lott's betrayed a lot more than mere stupidity.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pointman

The real problem with what he said is the stupidity on two fronts, first for actually thinking something so stupid, second for being stupid enough to actually say it to a reporter. Can't see how it is any different than the Lott situation and the result should be the same.

What do you think of the chances of Barack Obama, and as black man, will have to be elected? I think because he's light-skinned and talks nice he has a chance.

What do you think of Senator Thurman's position that segregation should have stood in the US, and giving blacks rights have brought us to the disaster place we are now? I think Senator Thurman was right.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

If Palin said that she'd be done.

BTW, Palin has today been hired by Fox News.

As a political analyst and commentator.

Unfortunate that Steve Schmidt came out on 60 Minutes last night, and said publically that she has a problem telling the truth, and still does. But I doubt that will affect her FoxNews audience.

Her press release says she's so proud to be part of a "fair and balanced" news station.

There is absolutely no emoticon for what I am thinking about this right now

[pointman]

You two liberals are really not trying to suggest that Reid's comments are any less racist are you? Do you really believe that a light skinned African-American who talks white is more qualified to be elected than other African-Americans? There are degrees of racism? Just like a liberal to be two faced and defend their man while ready to gorge those who don't agree with their ridiculous philosophies and agendas.

Racist is racist, regardless of degree and we don't need people who think that way in powerful positions making decisions that affect real Americans.

Good luck trying to defend the indefensible. The good news for the rest of the county is that Reid will be out either in weeks or months, personally I am hoping for weeks!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pointman

You two liberals are really not trying to suggest that Reid's comments are any less racist are you?

Sorry, I'm still a moderate Republican Not all "conservatives" only embrace the ultra-far right mindset. There is a range of political belief. We mods are currently homeless within the GOP, however, as the public GOP doesn't seem to want us right now (notice that the GOP campaign coffers are dangerously empty right now, and draw your own conclusions about what part of the GOP has always financially supported the party .... )

When the question is, specifically, how will a black man get elected, how will THIS black man get elected, how do you not talk about the fact that this guy is indeed black, and his personal characteristics, in light of the history of racism in this country? Are you supposed to not talk about his being black?

What if the question was, "how will this Muslim get elected?". Is saying, "well, he doesn't kneel in his office on his prayer rug facing Mecca multiple times a day, and he doesn't have a Muslim-"sounding" name" - is that racist?

(and btw, we have Muslims elected on a national level)

You seriously cannot see a difference between that and saying you support segregation?

Racism implies one race is superior, or better, than another. Is that thought present in the first statement? In the second?

How about when Glenn Beck said, "The President is a racist" Was that racist? I don't think so. I think it was unsupported factually, thus a stupid thing to say, but not racist.

Michael Steele, RNC Chair, got raked over the coals a bit this past week for saying, "Honest injun" on a talk show. The Native American community went wild, calling that a racist statement. Do you think it was? I don't.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

you don't see any difference between a comment on the electability of a black candidate and someone suggesting the u.s. would have been better off electing an avowed segregationist president?

they're the same thing?

i think one reason republican's are so lost when it comes to race is because they might sincerely believe this. reid's comment was stupid. lott's betrayed a lot more than mere stupidity.

Yes, they are both racist and I condone neither. I don't believe in degrees of racism which by your comments aparently you do. Though, I think if the comments were reversed you would take the position that Reid should resign because Liberals like you only care about your agenda and what furthers it. I think Lott got what he deserved and now Reid should get what he deserves, a kick out the door.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by pointman

You two liberals are really not trying to suggest that Reid's comments are any less racist are you? Do you really believe that a light skinned African-American who talks white is more qualified to be elected than other African-Americans? There are degrees of racism? Just like a liberal to be two faced and defend their man while ready to gourge those who don't agree with their ridiculous philosophies and agendas.

Racist is racist, regardless of degree and we don't need people who think that way in powerful positions making decisions that affect real Americans.

Good luck trying to defend the indefensible. The good news for the rest of the county is that Reid will be out either in weeks or months, personally I am hoping for weeks!

reid's comment was essentially that white voter's were more likely to vote for obama because he was light skinned and spoke in a way familiar to them. it was impolitic for him to mention to a reporter that we're not ready to elect snoop president.

how is that the same as wishing the last 6 decades of racial progress never happened?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

reid's comment was essentially that white voter's were more likely to vote for obama because he was light skinned and spoke in a way familiar to them. it was impolitic for him to mention to a reporter that we're not ready to elect snoop president.

how is that the same as wishing the last 6 decades of racial progress never happened?

You just don't get it, they are both racist comments. The funny thing is that Reid was dead wrong about this country. It did not matter to Americans that Obama was African-American, has a Muslim name or that, to quote Mr. Reid, he has "no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one." Americans proved that they are beyond such nonsense and Mr. Reid is way out of touch and should not be in a position to make important decisions regarding the American people if he thinks that way. He needs to go, plain and simple.

Keep trying to defend the indefensible, you are really cracking me up at this point!

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by pointman

Yes, they are both racist and I condone neither. I don't believe in degrees of racism which by your comments aparently you do. Though, I think if the comments were reversed you would take the position that Reid should resign because Liberals like you only care about your agenda and what furthers it. I think Lott got what he deserved and now Reid should get what he deserves, a kick out the door.

lol at harry reid's racism. you can make an arguement that what he said was reverse racism since it assumes that white's still want to vote only for people that look and sound like them. an accurate assessment for many in this county. i guess i'm also a racist for thinking so.

harry reid was a boob for speaking an uncomfortable truth. but it's hardly calling for seperation of the races, a position trent lott seemed to endorse in his comments about strom thurmond.

again. this is why you folks have so much trouble on race. you actually beleive your own propaganda.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

lol at harry reid's racism. you can make an arguement that what he said was reverse racism since it assumes that white's still want to vote only for people that look and sound like them. an accurate assessment for many in this county. i guess i'm also a racist for thinking so.

harry reid was a boob for speaking an uncomfortable truth. but it's hardly calling for seperation of the races, a position trent lott seemed to endorse in his comments about strom thurmond.

again. this is why you folks have so much trouble on race. you actually beleive your own propaganda.

Stop trying to suggest that I somehow condone what Lott said as I have in no way suggested that, Lott's comments were wrong, but you just can't stomach that your hero has made stupid racist comments which bear on his fitness to serve. He should have been worried about his candidate's agenda, not the color of his skin or the way he speaks.

How dare you suggest you know anything about me and race, but it is not unlike liberal idots like yourself to make such careless stupid comments. Are you really saying that you condone these comments and that Reid is fit to serve in our government. Keep trying to defend him, it just gets funnier with every comment you post!

P.S. I don't put much stock in those who make arguments that can't spell the word.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

BTW, Palin has today been hired by Fox News.

As a political analyst and commentator.

Unfortunate that Steve Schmidt came out on 60 Minutes last night, and said publically that she has a problem telling the truth, and still does. But I doubt that will affect her FoxNews audience.

Her press release says she's so proud to be part of a "fair and balanced" news station.

There is absolutely no emoticon for what I am thinking about this right now

Analysts and commentators give opinions. Like her or not she is a big name, has a solid base of supporters and will create buzz. Fox is a business and ratings do matter and she will almost certainly help in that area.

[Danzig]

i already don't watch, her hiring won't change that. i don't care for her at all. but cannon's right, she'll attract viewers. as for the dialogue between pointman and god...this is why we don't have much discussion about race. as soon as anyone tries to say anything, they're shouted down by someone as being a racist. i doubt that harry reid was giving an opinion on his own thinking-but i think he's correct when he says that obama had a better shot than some would because of his look and bearing. i'm not quite sure how that means reid is a racist-but he certainly is smart enough to know they exist. and there's no comparison imo between his comments and lotts. lott said that had we elected thurmond, we wouldn't have so many problems-thurmond ran as a segregationist. lott appeared to be condoning that stance by what he said.

edit~ as an aside, joe biden said of his then-opponent that obama was clean and articulate, among other words he used. is that racist? obama must not think so, he chose biden for his running mate.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

Americans proved that they are beyond such nonsense and Mr. Reid is way out of touch and should not be in a position to make important decisions regarding the American people if he thinks that way. He needs to go, plain and simple.

Reid is on borrowed time

As Spotlight Shines on Reid, Re-Election Prospects Dim
by Nate Silver

On the heels of last week's retirement announcements by Senators Chris Dodd and Bryon Dorgan, and Colorado Governor Bill Ritter, it's natural to wonder which other Democrats might follow them into the Great Cloak Room in the Sky. And few Democrats are more vulnerable than Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

It appeared for a while as though Reid, although his approval ratings have been challenging for some time, might avoid having to face a serious Republican opponent. And indeed, the candidates whom the Republicans have mustered up aren't much: a former state senator on the one hand (Sue Lowden), and son of a famous basketball coach (Danny Tarkanian) on the other, who has never held elected office. Nevertheless, Reid has trailed both Lowden and Tarkanian in every poll, although almost always by single-digit margins.

The weakness of the Republican candidates, along with more than $8 million in the bank, an extremely unpopular Republican incumbent governor, and control of the machine in a machine state, are what might allow Reid to keep the race competitive. But increasingly it seems as though his chances of a victory might hinge upon a significant gaffe or scandal on the part of Lowden or Tarkanian. There is a nontrivial chance of something like this happening; Lowden and Tarkanian are inexperienced campaigners, Nevada is a state where more politicians than not have skeletons in the closet, and $8 million pays for a lot of opposition research.

However, after revelations surfaced this weekend that Reid made impolitic remarks in 2008 concerning Barack Obama's skin tone, Reid's position has become more tenuous. Although Republicans may yet manage to minimize the cost of the gaffe through tone-deaf remarks of their own, the fact remains that Reid cannot withstand any erosion of support within the African-American community, which constitutes 10 percent of the electorate in Nevada and heretofore had been of his few remaining reservoirs of support. A September poll for Daily Kos by Research 2000, for example, showed Reid leading Tarkanian 74-5 among black voters, even while trailing him 40-45 overall. If, hypothetically, 10 percent of the black voters in that poll switched from Reid to Tarkanian as a result of his remarks, and another 20 percent decided not to vote, that would expand Tarkanian's lead to 47-38, a 9-point margin.

Are those pessimistic assumptions? I have no way in particular to know. But Reid's remarks have received a generally unsympathetic reaction among black political bloggers, even at the same time that black political leaders have been tripping over themselves to defend him. And as someone whose best-case scenario probably involved cobbling together 51-53 percent of the electorate, turning off even a small fraction of black voters could be highly injurious.

Reid's problems, however, predated his remarks about "Negro dialect", as well as the increasing unpopularity of the Democratic agenda over the past months. Las Vegas Review-Journal polling, in fact, found that the turnaround came at least two years ago

The causality here seems to be fairly clear. Reid's favorables dipped from 50/25 to about 45/40 after he took over as Senate Minority Leader in 2004. They then dropped further -- about to their present position of 35/50 -- after the Democrats took over the majority in 2006. The decline in Reid's numbers, ironically, came at a the time when most other Democrats were on the ascendancy and his party was winning almost every competitive election.

But being a majority leader, of late, has been hazardous to one's political health. Reid's predecessor, Bill Frist of Tennessee, retired rather than seek re-election in 2006; although Frist had pledged to serve only two terms, his approval ratings at the time of his retirement were in the 40s, and his re-election would have been highly uncertain. Preceding Frist was Tom Daschle of South Dakota, who famously lost to Republican John Thune, then Trent Lott of Mississippi, who stepped down from his leadership position after racial remarks of his own (although Lott did win re-election to the Senate, in 2006). Before Lott was Bob Dole of Kansas, who abandoned the position to concentrate on his losing Presidential bidl before Dole was George Mitchell of Maine, who quit politics at the relatively young age of 62 after being unable to produce legislative victories for Bill Clinton in 1993-94.

Whatever Reid's qualifications as a legislative point guard -- from my vantage point, much of the criticism has been deserved but much has not been -- it has been damaging to his electoral position in at least two ways. Firstly, Reid is not a naturally charismatic politician. Ordinarily, this is less fatal than you might think: meet a Congressman, and you'd be surprised at how often he fails to stand out from the crowd, instead surviving based a combination of organizational skills, constituent services, and a reputation for trustworthiness -- all of which Reid has in spades. But the party leadership position draws more attention to Reid's weaknesses, particularly in the Internet/cable era where it's harder to hide from the cameras.

Secondly Reid, who once was once regarded as something of a conservative and had National Journal ratings in the 60s, has been unable to publicly oppose elements of the Democratic agenda which he might find electorally disadvantageous. Although Nevada may have become bluer, its unorthodox demographics -- highly unionized and relatively nonwhite, but also somewhat libertarian and with a sizable Mormon minority -- do not lend themselves to a doctrinaire liberal (or conservative) position.

Indeed, some elements of the Democratic agenda, particularly health care, are not wearing well on Nevadans, and so a different Democratic candidate would hardly have a free pass. Nevertheless, considering the unimpressive Republican opposition, and that Democrats have developed a sizeable registration advantage in the state, we would probably characterize the contest as "Lean Democrat" if Reid were to be replaced by another candidate like NV-1 Representative Shelly Berkley or State Senate President Steven Horsford.

It's no business of ours whether Reid retires. Because he is the Majority Leader, there are a whole host of political considerations that come into play in addition to electoral ones, as well as the prospective impact on the news cycle. He does have some reasonable prospect of winning and he does have some advantages, notably his money and his polished, professional staff. And it would almost certainly be a terrible idea to announce a retirement within the next 45 days, while the fallout from his remarks to Mark Halperin lingers, and while Republicans could claim another scalp.

Nevertheless, this is a conversation that Democrats need to be having, if they aren't already. Reid's favorability ratings are quite similar to those of former New Jersey governor Jon Corzine, who like Reid had an enormous monetary advantage, a good turnout operation, and a somewhat underwhelming Republican opponent, but ultimately gathered no more than 45 percent of the vote.

[Danzig]

yes, reid is on borrowed time. he's not polling well, hasn't for a while in nevada. reminds me of tom daschle-all that power, and then gets the boot. i wonder if the democratic party doesn't ask to him to step down, just to get a more palatable candidate to run, rather than risk losing the seat.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Analysts and commentators give opinions. Like her or not she is a big name, has a solid base of supporters and will create buzz. Fox is a business and ratings do matter and she will almost certainly help in that area.

Fox is already the most watched cable news channel, has been for some time.

As long as she reads what they write for her, she'll be fine. It won't matter that she thinks Africa is a country. She's on Bill O'Reilly tonight.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yes, reid is on borrowed time. he's not polling well, hasn't for a while in nevada. reminds me of tom daschle-all that power, and then gets the boot. i wonder if the democratic party doesn't ask to him to step down, just to get a more palatable candidate to run, rather than risk losing the seat.

I doubt it, about the stepping down. He's just a nice guy.

The GOP has far more seats up for voting in this next election than the Dems, and the only Dem seats really at any risk are the ones from purple or red districts, who only went Dem the last Presidential election, anyway.

I think something would really have to change to see the GOP take more seats than the usual post-Pres first election changeover. Maybe if unemployment still is slow recovering.