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  #1  
Old 08-23-2006, 08:07 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Default need advice re praying in school

i live (red) neck deep in the bible belt. my kids went back to school on monday, and the new principal at the high school brought in a gospel group monday morning, the first hour of school was spent in the auditorium while they sang gospel songs...and then had a prayer. tuesday and wednesday, a student led prayer over the intercom after the pledge....

couple questions...one, isn't this unconstitutional???? last i saw it was. now, i don't want to get into a debate of whether prayer should or shouldn't be allowed.
i'm ticked that my kid is going to school at a place where the supreme court ruling is being ignored. or should i be?

am i wrong? i called and left a message about this yesterday am at the school, and today they had another prayer, which means my call was basically ignored.

if i want to pursue this, who do i call? state board of ed? or do i just ignore it, like other things i don't agree with there??

i don't want to get too public about it...i don't want my kids getting grief about it.
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  #2  
Old 08-23-2006, 08:08 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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just to clarify...

if prayer was ruled constitutional tomorrow, i wouldn't care. it's purely about the legality of the situation. i'm big on following laws....er, except for speed limits.
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  #3  
Old 08-23-2006, 08:59 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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anyone??

maybe by morning...
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  #4  
Old 08-23-2006, 08:59 PM
BellamyRd.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig188
just to clarify...

if prayer was ruled constitutional tomorrow, i wouldn't care. it's purely about the legality of the situation. i'm big on following laws....er, except for speed limits.
they had a big stink here because a Hindu Pakistani person didn't want prayer said at graduation, she was an outcast but she stood for what she believed, just like Norma Rae...I'd be careful though in a small community where people "talk"...I hate to be a to tell you to be a pacifist, because I like stirring the pot, but you gotta pick your battles...I'd let it go, but if you wanted to pursue it I'd definately contact the board of education, good luck!
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  #5  
Old 08-23-2006, 09:14 PM
KonaNative KonaNative is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig188
anyone??

maybe by morning...
Two options..

A- ACLU

B- Move

If you go with option A...Prepare yourself and family for a world of grief and ****e!!!

Let it go...JMHO
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  #6  
Old 08-23-2006, 09:41 PM
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somerfrost somerfrost is offline
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These are tough situations...you have every right to complain to the Local Board of Education, The State Board of Education or seek help from ACLU or other legal groups that deal in Constitutional issues. Of course if you do, as others have said, be prepared for a lot of grief and, perhaps more importantly, be prepared for your family to be attacked. The question you have to answer is how important is this to you? If you feel strongly...well, how strongly? You also have to discuss it with your family...they need to be prepared and in agreement or you'll have a terrible time internally as well. I had a similar situation recently...do what I thought was right or not...I stood on principle...lost my job, my wife, and losing my farm, denied unemployment and no income coming in, job interviews have been rare and unproductive...every action brings a reaction, be sure you are prepared for what may come!
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  #7  
Old 08-23-2006, 09:52 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig188
i live (red) neck deep in the bible belt. my kids went back to school on monday, and the new principal at the high school brought in a gospel group monday morning, the first hour of school was spent in the auditorium while they sang gospel songs...and then had a prayer. tuesday and wednesday, a student led prayer over the intercom after the pledge....

couple questions...one, isn't this unconstitutional???? last i saw it was. now, i don't want to get into a debate of whether prayer should or shouldn't be allowed.
i'm ticked that my kid is going to school at a place where the supreme court ruling is being ignored. or should i be?

am i wrong? i called and left a message about this yesterday am at the school, and today they had another prayer, which means my call was basically ignored.

if i want to pursue this, who do i call? state board of ed? or do i just ignore it, like other things i don't agree with there??

i don't want to get too public about it...i don't want my kids getting grief about it.
I would find out where your school board meeting is and go. If you really want it to stop you would make an official appearance in front of the school board and ask what the policy is. Then if the board says something like it is the principals choice or we will look into it just ask what the policy of the school district is. If they say a prayer is allowed you can then go back door and find ask to meet with the Sup. and say you will take it further legally. If the District is trying to make a statement you will find out. If they really dont want to waste money on this type of law suit I bet they tell the principal to stop with the prayer. If the district is trying to make a statement the ACLU is def. your best bet as they would take this on at no cost.
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  #8  
Old 08-23-2006, 09:53 PM
BellamyRd.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost
These are tough situations...you have every right to complain to the Local Board of Education, The State Board of Education or seek help from ACLU or other legal groups that deal in Constitutional issues. Of course if you do, as others have said, be prepared for a lot of grief and, perhaps more importantly, be prepared for your family to be attacked. The question you have to answer is how important is this to you? If you feel strongly...well, how strongly? You also have to discuss it with your family...they need to be prepared and in agreement or you'll have a terrible time internally as well. I had a similar situation recently...do what I thought was right or not...I stood on principle...lost my job, my wife, and losing my farm, denied unemployment and no income coming in, job interviews have been rare and unproductive...every action brings a reaction, be sure you are prepared for what may come!
Not to interfere in Mrs. Zeigler's thread, but I'm very sorry to hear about your situation John. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance to you...and you will be in my thoughts and prayers (no pun intended), best of luck to you sir!
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  #9  
Old 08-23-2006, 10:01 PM
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somerfrost somerfrost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellamyRd.
Not to interfere in Mrs. Zeigler's thread, but I'm very sorry to hear about your situation John. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance to you...and you will be in my thoughts and prayers (no pun intended), best of luck to you sir!
Thanks Coach...I don't talk much about it but I thought it applied here, folks need to know that doing the right thing is no guarantee of good results!
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2006, 10:11 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost
Thanks Coach...I don't talk much about it but I thought it applied here, folks need to know that doing the right thing is no guarantee of good results!
This is important. You need to make sure you know your kids maybe caught in the middle of this if you really have a hateful redneck kind of district. Principals that pray present no guarantee they wont take out God's rath on your kids.

Last edited by pgardn : 08-23-2006 at 10:14 PM.
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2006, 10:14 PM
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Seattleallstar Seattleallstar is offline
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I'd say dont go there, and just let it be.
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  #12  
Old 08-24-2006, 06:51 AM
Rupert Pupkin Rupert Pupkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig188
just to clarify...

if prayer was ruled constitutional tomorrow, i wouldn't care. it's purely about the legality of the situation. i'm big on following laws....er, except for speed limits.
If you wouldn't have a problem with prayer if it was ruled constitutional tomorrow, then I don't know why you would have a problem with prayer right now. Laws aren't always right. It seems like it would pretty silly to complain about prayer if you don't have a problem with it. If you complain about it, I think you are just being a "trouble-maker".

You even said yourself that you don't always obeys laws that you don't like such as speed-limits.

Sure it is important that we follow laws in general because if nobody followed laws there would be chaos. If people ignored traffic signals, there would be a ton of traffic accidents. But if it's 2:00am and you are the only car on the road and you are stopped at a red-light, and you can see clearly see in every direction that the road is empty, I don't think you need to wait for the light to turn green. Most laws are a mean to an end. They aren't an end in themselves.

Last edited by Rupert Pupkin : 08-24-2006 at 07:18 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-24-2006, 10:39 AM
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Scurlogue Champ Scurlogue Champ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaNative
Two options..

A- ACLU

B- Move

If you go with option A...Prepare yourself and family for a world of grief and ****e!!!

Let it go...JMHO
A few more options

A- Keep your mouth shut

B- Ruin your children's lives

C- Pull them out of the school
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2006, 11:01 AM
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somerfrost somerfrost is offline
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I think the main consideration here has to be how do the kids feel? If it doesn't bother them then it would be an issue purely based on principle and perhaps not worth the problems it would cause. If they appear negatively effected by it...that's a different story! In any event, be sure the entire family is aware of the potential consequences and is in agreement before proceeding! This is indeed a difficult decision!!
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2006, 11:29 AM
BellamyRd.
 
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LOL, don't get crazy calling in the ACLU...I'd just see if I could arrange a private meeting with the head of the board of education...no need for Mr. Sharpton, actually if Sharpton is a Reverend wouldn't it be a conflict of interest for him? Hmm, that's a quagmire.
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  #16  
Old 08-24-2006, 06:11 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
If you wouldn't have a problem with prayer if it was ruled constitutional tomorrow, then I don't know why you would have a problem with prayer right now. Laws aren't always right. It seems like it would pretty silly to complain about prayer if you don't have a problem with it. If you complain about it, I think you are just being a "trouble-maker".

You even said yourself that you don't always obeys laws that you don't like such as speed-limits.

Sure it is important that we follow laws in general because if nobody followed laws there would be chaos. If people ignored traffic signals, there would be a ton of traffic accidents. But if it's 2:00am and you are the only car on the road and you are stopped at a red-light, and you can see clearly see in every direction that the road is empty, I don't think you need to wait for the light to turn green. Most laws are a mean to an end. They aren't an end in themselves.
as i said, it's not the problem about prayer, it has to do with the fact it was declared unconstitutional--and i don't think my children should be used to defy a supreme court ruling.

i probably will let it go for now. it it bothers me that it's happening, but i do know it would open a tremendously huge can of worms. and of course my kids would be the one to get the grief, not me--so much.

thanks to everyone for their comments, i appreciate you chiming in.

and rupe, most cities don't require you to sit at a red light later at night due to carjacking concerns...most places set them to go to flashing lights at night.

i just happen to get a bit burned when people try to pull a majority rules, so we're right thing..which is what this is, the majority doesn't rule, the constitution is supposed to. it's a pet peeve of mine!

thanks again everyone.
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2006, 07:56 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig188
as i said, it's not the problem about prayer, it has to do with the fact it was declared unconstitutional--and i don't think my children should be used to defy a supreme court ruling.

i probably will let it go for now. it it bothers me that it's happening, but i do know it would open a tremendously huge can of worms. and of course my kids would be the one to get the grief, not me--so much.

thanks to everyone for their comments, i appreciate you chiming in.

and rupe, most cities don't require you to sit at a red light later at night due to carjacking concerns...most places set them to go to flashing lights at night.

i just happen to get a bit burned when people try to pull a majority rules, so we're right thing..which is what this is, the majority doesn't rule, the constitution is supposed to. it's a pet peeve of mine!

thanks again everyone.
I personally would bring it up in a nonadversarial way. Thats just me though. And if I had any hint it was hurting my daughter in any way, I would move her. And then keep up the battle because the people involved had actually held this against my kid. People like that have no place in education.
As a teacher, I had parent call me stupid 6 times in a row on the phone and then hang up on me because her daughter did not make an A. I never ever took it out on her kid though, its not her fault. She did not choose her mom. And she was a really good kid. But even if she was not, I would feel horrible holding a grudge because of her mom.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2006, 08:45 PM
Bold Brooklynite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaNative
Two options..

A- ACLU

B- Move

If you go with option A...Prepare yourself and family for a world of grief and ****e!!!

Let it go...JMHO
A better option ...

... put an end to all government owned and operated schools ... let parents keep their own money ... and use it to send their children to schools of their choice ... religious ... nonreligious ... or otherwise.

Yup ... it's called Freedom.
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2006, 09:07 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite
A better option ...

... put an end to all government owned and operated schools ... let parents keep their own money ... and use it to send their children to schools of their choice ... religious ... nonreligious ... or otherwise.

Yup ... it's called Freedom.
Since the military has not done a good job lets go further. A military run by private companies. That would be cool too. Local police run by private companies... our foreign affairs have not been going so well, lets privatize our foreign service. And what the heck, the supreme court privatized. Lets go all the way. All branches of government run by private companies.

Libertarians unite. Right.
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2006, 09:17 PM
Bold Brooklynite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Since the military has not done a good job lets go further. A military run by private companies. That would be cool too. Local police run by private companies... our foreign affairs have not been going so well, lets privatize our foreign service. And what the heck, the supreme court privatized. Lets go all the way. All branches of government run by private companies.

Libertarians unite. Right.
Those are all good ideas ... but ...

... I don't like the word "libertarian" ... a word concocted to distinguish real freedom lovers from leftists who co-opted the word "liberal" ...

... but since leftists spurned the "liberal" designation ... I've gladly reclaimed it ... please refer to my political beliefs as liberal.
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