Does this taint the Travers?

[Betsy]

I posted a separate topic for this because I didn't Bluegrass Cat deserves his own thread, poor guy.

Do we assume that the injury happened during the running of the race? If so, how do we now view Bernardini's performance? Do we now have to be skeptical? I honestly thought he was lengths better than BC anyway, but will there always be a feeling that he was beating an injured horse?

This is so frustrating for so many reasons - it's a shame for BC, who was a really good racehorse, even if he wasn't Bernardini. It's a shame for the Cat's connections, who won't get to enjoy him race anymore. And oddly enough, it's a shame for Bernardini and his connections, because skeptics who may have been convinced yesterday will now claim that he only beat an injured horse (despite us not knowing where the injury occurred - it could have happened after the race, as he was pulling up.....not necessarily during the running).

Horse racing giveth and taketh away, but sheesh - within 24 hours?

[Danzig]

well...if anything taints the race yesterday, it would be that bernardini got to set an easy pace, while bgc did everything he could to keep him honest up front. which took bgc out of his element, because he never ran a race like that before. let him lope, he'd have too much left for the finish, press him too much, neither has a shot at the end. high cotton wasn't classy enough to keep up. props to bgc for trying.

ought to be interesting when bernardini has a legit frontrunner....of course than he'll probably just track off him and blow by...but i'd like to see it to know for sure.

commentator is set to return next wknd in the forego. maybe he'll be at the jcgc after....that ought to be interesting.

basically, we'll never know if it's a skewed result. so you just applaud the win and go on.

[Smooth Operator]

You only had to take a quick look at the Past Performances to realize that Blucat was a cut below Bernardini.

The news that he got injured takes absolutely nothing away from another outstanding performance by a terrific 3-year-old colt.

A damn shame that we never got to see how Barbaro would've fared against him, though....

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

well...if anything taints the race yesterday, it would be that bernardini got to set an easy pace, while bgc did everything he could to keep him honest up front. which took bgc out of his element, because he never ran a race like that before. let him lope, he'd have too much left for the finish, press him too much, neither has a shot at the end. high cotton wasn't classy enough to keep up. props to bgc for trying.

ought to be interesting when bernardini has a legit frontrunner....of course than he'll probably just track off him and blow by...but i'd like to see it to know for sure.

commentator is set to return next wknd in the forego. maybe he'll be at the jcgc after....that ought to be interesting.

basically, we'll never know if it's a skewed result. so you just applaud the win and go on.

good post - I'm still thrilled, but sad abut BC. The one thing I'll say about BC being taken out of his game (and Johnny V had no choice) is that that in itself shows how good Bernardini is. How often do you see a jock do what he did?

Bern is so versatile, which is partly why I was so confident in him. Jerry Bailey said it best on the telecast - he has such a quick turn of foot, that he can escape some situations that many horses can not. For instance, if BC had him blocked on the inside,Javier could just back Bern up and go around......pretty quickly, too. It would take too much out of a horse like BC, who is more of a grinder. If a horse is going to be great, then there will still be questions to be answered. Like you, Danzig, I'm sure Bernardini would have no problem with legitimate speed, but if we want to find out, we won't have to wait too long.

What a frustrating game........I won't let BC's injury taint this for me, but it certainly makes it bittersweet.

A broken heart probably led to the pastern injury....let's face it...Bluegarss Cat was a game horse thought fought to the wire like all of the good Storm Cats do and he was probably over-extending himself when Bernardini broke his heart at the top of the stretch when he tried him with everything he had twice and couldn't get Bernardini to break a sweat...BGC was all racehorse and you gotta love his competitiveness....thats what makes the good Storm Cats so damn good...they are all fighters

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A broken heart probably led to the pastern injury....let's face it...Bluegarss Cat was a game horse thought fought to the wire like all of the good Storm Cats do and he was probably over-extending himself when Bernardini broke his heart at the top of the stretch when he tried him with everything he had twice and couldn't get Bernardini to break a sweat...BGC was all racehorse and you gotta love his competitiveness....thats what makes the good Storm Cats so damn good...they are all fighters

Breaking News: Bernardini has been charged with attempted murder and is being held in the Saratoga detention barn.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A broken heart probably led to the pastern injury....let's face it...Bluegarss Cat was a game horse thought fought to the wire like all of the good Storm Cats do and he was probably over-extending himself when Bernardini broke his heart at the top of the stretch when he tried him with everything he had twice and couldn't get Bernardini to break a sweat...BGC was all racehorse and you gotta love his competitiveness....thats what makes the good Storm Cats so damn good...they are all fighters

Jerry Bailey basically said the same thing on ESPN - poor BC had his heart broken by Bernardini. Yes, I can definitely see how the injury might have occurred there. This is why people love horses - they try so darn hard for you. Such noble creatures.............This race was a good test for Bernardini because a really fine colt tested him.

I had thought after the race that Todd might point the Cat for the Super Derby, so as to give his colt a chance to recover from chasing Bernardini. His quotes seemed to indicate that he thought the loss was due mainly to the extra week of rest that Bernardini had on him........although I think at heart he knew Bernardini would have to be subpar in order to lose. I'm sorry the decision was taken out of his hands...........

The injury could have occured at any time between the race and Sunday morning.

Most likely it didn't occur during the race ... because Bluegrass Cat outfinished the rest of the field ... not an easy thing to do with a cracked pastern.

If he had backed up suddenly around the turn or in the stretch ... we could attribute his performance to the injury. But that wasn't the case.

Originally Posted by Betsy

Jerry Bailey basically said the same thing on ESPN - poor BC had his heart broken by Bernardini. Yes, I can definitely see how the injury might have occurred there.

Nonsense ...

... did Barbaro and Jazil also "break his heart"?

Then this guy has had more heartbreaks than a soap opera star.

Pfoooey on this Oprah hogwash.

[Sightseek]

I saw him cool out and he looked fine at the time, but like someone else pointed out, the blood is still circulating well at that time.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Nonsense ...

... did Barbaro and Jazil also "break his heart"?

Then this guy has had more heartbreaks than a soap opera star.

Pfoooey on this Oprah hogwash.

LOL!

more heartbreaks than a soap opera star...

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The injury could have occured at any time between the race and Sunday morning.

Most likely it didn't occur during the race ... because Bluegrass Cat outfinished the rest of the field ... not an easy thing to do with a cracked pastern.

If he had backed up suddenly around the turn or in the stretch ... we could attribute his performance to the injury. But that wasn't the case.

Sigh,
BB you are really supposed to be better than this. Do you honestly believe whatyou just said? That he fractured it just hanging around his stall last night?
It happened during the race obviously, and no it didn't taint it one bit. But it does give me just a little perspective on why he ran away so easily. That borken heart **** is for sappy movies. Horses dont get broken hearts, if they did then poor ole BC wouldnt been 2nd in the Derby after "getting his heart broken, sniff sniff" in the Blue Grass.
Amd I really talking to adults here? You honestly believe in broken hearts and horses fracturing a pastern in a stall vs in the mile and a quarter race they just ran in?
This thread is a new low here.

[Danzig]

personal ensign broke her leg in a workout, seemed fine, no bad step etc. didn't suddenly stop. they went to her stall later and she was lame.

horses don't always stop, they ignore the pain, or try to. i don't think the injury caused the loss. he didn't quit. speaks volumes about bluegrass cat and his will. storm cats are half nuts anyway....

but talk of breaking hearts? nah

the only hearts that got broken are bettors who had ministers bid in all their tris!!!

[Betsy]

I think the "broken heart" thing is just a poetic way of saying that it must have been very discouraging to Bluegrass Cat to be working as hard as he was to stay close to Bernardini, while Bernardini was going so easily. None of us made this theory up - Man o' War was considered to have broken John P. Grier's heart in the Dwyer (not that it was necessarily true, but that thought was out there at the time). Also, trainers say all the time that they enter their horses in spots to give them their confidence back.........why would they do that if there was no credence to the theory?

[Danzig]

some horses are like people, they hate to lose. and some actually pout when they know they didn't win. they're sore losers! lol

the whole thing with getting their confidence back is that horses are herd animals, with an alpha in the herd...everyone else is subordinate to that alpha animal. a horse starts losing, he starts moving himself down the pecking order...so you run against slower, lesser horses, he wins--the lightbulb (hopefully) goes on...'why, i'm the alpha!' is what they hope the horses believes....

Originally Posted by oracle80

Sigh,
BB you are really supposed to be better than this. Do you honestly believe whatyou just said? That he fractured it just hanging around his stall last night?

Single word response ... Alydar.

No ... make that two words ... Saint Liam.

Oooops ... I guess that's three words.

Hey, Mike ... anything can happen at any time with these fragile creatures. If the horse was in pain during the race ... his body language would have shown it ... and an experienced jockey like Velazquez would have picked up on it right away ... or pulling up after the race ... or walking back to unsaddle ... or surely the groom would have when he led him back to the barn ... or before putting him beddy-bye.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Single word response ... Alydar.

No ... make that two words ... Saint Liam.

Oooops ... I guess that's three words.

Hey, Mike ... anything can happen at any time with these fragile creatures. If the horse was in pain during the race ... his body language would have shown it ... and an experienced jockey like Velazquez would have picked up on it right away ... or pulling up after the race ... or walking back to unsaddle ... or surely the groom would have when he led him back to the barn ... or before putting him beddy-bye.

Not true, injuries that occur in a hard race often don't show up until the next day! Horses are athletes, they know when they are gonna race and the adrenalin rush can often mask an injury until later...that's why any trainer will always answer questions about future plans by adding, "lets see how he comes out of this race!"

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Not true, injuries that occur in a hard race often don't show up until the next day! Horses are athletes, they know when they are gonna race and the adrenalin rush can often mask an injury until later...that's why any trainer will always answer questions about future plans by adding, "lets see how he comes out of this race!"

Sure ...

... but injuries can also occur when a horse isn't racing.

In this case ... as in most ... we'll never know ... 'cause the horses never tell us.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sure ...

... but injuries can also occur when a horse isn't racing.

In this case ... as in most ... we'll never know ... 'cause the horses never tell us.

Absolutely true! My guess is that it happened in the race and would possibly explain why he flattened out in the stretch...but it's a guess nothing more!

Originally Posted by Betsy

None of us made this theory up.

No ... it's been around as long as homo sapiens has ...

... it's known as "anthropomorphism" ...

... attributing human traits to animals.