Beyer vs bris

[tywizard]

Can someone explain the differences between beyer and bris figures?

In looking at the best figures for the derby contenders I noticed that El Padrino has the highest Bris figure (111) and a Beyer figure of 100.

[tywizard]

I just realized that it sounds like I'm totally clueless. I have a good understanding of the Beyer figures. So I guess my question is really to understand if there is any historical significance of highest Bris figure. And what the main differences are.

[Thunder Gulch]

I believe that in an effort to improve Beyer speed figures, they have become more and more subjective than what they originally represented back to the basics he laid out in "Picking Winners". While it may produce a more accurate representation of a specific performance, it also may distort the picture for users because they don't know exactly what goes into a number and takes it at face value. If Beyer is making pace and trip adjustments, handicappers may "double" count something that caused a subjective change in the first place.

Brisnet's are projection based, same as Beyer, but they are straight computer numbers. Most of the time they are very similar, though the scale may be a little different. You can't compare Beyer 100 to Bris 100 without knowing the class pars.

[Gate Dancer]

Check this link for some comparisons:

http://www.chef-de-race.com/pfs/comp...speed_figs.htm

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I believe that in an effort to improve Beyer speed figures, they have become more and more subjective than what they originally represented back to the basics he laid out in "Picking Winners". While it may produce a more accurate representation of a specific performance, it also may distort the picture for users because they don't know exactly what goes into a number and takes it at face value. If Beyer is making pace and trip adjustments, handicappers may "double" count something that caused a subjective change in the first place.

Brisnet's are projection based, same as Beyer, but they are straight computer numbers. Most of the time they are very similar, though the scale may be a little different. You can't compare Beyer 100 to Bris 100 without knowing the class pars.

A good example is Keeneland Sunday. Lots of subjectivity going on there in the three route races.