guliani takes first prez step

[Danzig]

setting up an exploratory committee...this from the article:

'Giuliani has said for months that he would wait until after the 2006 elections to decide whether to embark on a White House bid. The former mayor is a moderate who supports gun control, same-sex civil unions, embryonic stem-cell research and abortion rights — stands that would put him at odds with the majority of the GOP conservative base'

sounds like my kinda guy! we'll see tho...mitt romney also mentioned as a possible, and he of course is the guy who got the health care ball rolling in massachusetts.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

setting up an exploratory committee...this from the article:

'Giuliani has said for months that he would wait until after the 2006 elections to decide whether to embark on a White House bid. The former mayor is a moderate who supports gun control, same-sex civil unions, embryonic stem-cell research and abortion rights — stands that would put him at odds with the majority of the GOP conservative base'

sounds like my kinda guy! we'll see tho...mitt romney also mentioned as a possible, and he of course is the guy who got the health care ball rolling in massachusetts.

Except that at a stump speech a few months back he spoke out against gun-control-- and so the McCain flip-flopping begins... I'm going to wait and see where he stands on issues eight months from now.

And so the run to 2008 begins, eh?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Except that at a stump speech a few months back he spoke out against gun-control-- and so the McCain flip-flopping begins... I'm going to wait and see where he stands on issues eight months from now.

And so the run to 2008 begins, eh?

Well, I suspect it quietly began about two years ago but certainly it will pick up speed now! I still support Hillary and Obama among the Dems, Rice in the Elephant party...although Rudy is a decent sort and I like the man personally, if he would win the nomination and the Dems do something utterly stupid...like nominate Kerry or Algore again...I could vote for the man!

[Danzig]

oops..see what happens when you read something at four am? i thought it said he was for gun rights. glad he flipped on that one then.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

oops..see what happens when you read something at four am? i thought it said he was for gun rights. glad he flipped on that one then.

But my question is, has he honestly flipped, or is he just saying what he thinks will get him elected? After watching McCain turn into such a wuss, it'd be a shame to see it happen again.

I'm not a Giuliani fan because of him demanding to be put in charge of the 9/11 money that came in and then putting his buddies into six-figure salaried positions handling it, but I figure that will come out into the full public view if he gets the nom, so I'm not thinking much about it.

Sure hope he's got more political smarts than his buddy Kerik did!

[Danzig]

well, who knows? they all talk to whoever is in the audience at the moment anyway. he doesn't seem afraid to be pro-choice, which is certainly not normal for a republican.
BUT seems the general thinking about guns have changed. so maybe he has changed his mind.
thing is, you have a right to own a gun. doesn't mean you have to own one! also, gun control only impacts those who follow the laws. what the heck, a criminal is going to rob a bank anyway--but he's going to have the scruples to not use a gun because THAT'S illegal?! don't think so.

[ArlJim78]

Retired mayor to the Oval office is not likely. I do feel that Mitt Romney is the one that will take off on the Rep side and could possibly be the main alternative to McCain.

[Rileyoriley]

Having lived in Massachusetts my whole life, I have to say that Romney was the best governor we had. Sorry to see him go. We actually have money in the state "rainy day fund" but I'm sure that will disappear quickly in 2007.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Having lived in Massachusetts my whole life, I have to say that Romney was the best governor we had. Sorry to see him go. We actually have money in the state "rainy day fund" but I'm sure that will disappear quickly in 2007.

Would you say that your opinion of Romney is typical of many in MA?
Does he have widespread support in the state?

[Rileyoriley]

No he doesn't. Massachusetts is a very blue state. The people voted him in because the state was so in the red because of all the Big Dig fiasco. Romney is a good businessman and had a plan to get us out of the red. He's done it too. Primarily by not approving every little pet project of our legislature. He said he wouldn't raise taxes and he didn't. He also raised certain fees in the state. My kennel license went from $25 a year to $35. No big deal. I've found him to be a man who follows through with his promises. He also cut back on welfare so it was consistant with the other states. I'd vote for him in 2008 but I'm not sure he'd get the nod. He has a tendency to say exactly what he thinks and while I admire that, others don't always.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

No he doesn't. Massachusetts is a very blue state. The people voted him in because the state was so in the red because of all the Big Dig fiasco. Romney is a good businessman and had a plan to get us out of the red. He's done it too. Primarily by not approving every little pet project of our legislature. He said he wouldn't raise taxes and he didn't. He also raised certain fees in the state. My kennel license went from $25 a year to $35. No big deal. I've found him to be a man who follows through with his promises. He also cut back on welfare so it was consistant with the other states. I'd vote for him in 2008 but I'm not sure he'd get the nod. He has a tendency to say exactly what he thinks and while I admire that, others don't always.

Yes I know how blue Mass is which is why I posed the question. I think he has all the tools to be a strong player for the republicans. However even if he managed to get nominated its unlikely he would carry his home state.

[GenuineRisk]

Riley, Romney is Mormon, right?

Not that I give two bits about what someone's religion is (my only concern is they keep it out of their governing) but I'm curious if you think that would affect voters' thoughts about him.

Re- gun control, Danzig-- I have a friend who has a very interesting theory on gun ownership. Since the right to bear arms is, I believe, connected to the purpose of forming a militia, he was of the opinion that Americans should be permitted access to any weapons the rank-and-file military uses in combat- automatics, semi-automatics, whatever. He was, however, opposed to anyone besides the police owning handguns, since the only purpose of a handgun is to get close enough to someone to shoot them without them seeing you have a gun on you.

Though I'm not a fan of his, I really did find Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" interesting-- the middle section of the film looked at why gun violence here in the USA is so much higher than in countries like Canada, where gun ownership is higher, per capita, than here. He focused on the media and the culture of fear it can engender. The movie is uneven (not surprising), but the middle section is pretty thought-provoking.

I think it's a difficult issue, because frankly, it's different if you live in a big city than if you do in the 'burbs or the country. Montana's governor is one of the few politicians I've read who actually addresses this fact-- that it's just different depending on where you live. Giuliani was very pro-gun-control while he was mayor here, as is Bloomberg now (both Republicans, by the way). But here, people die from gun violence every week. Every week. People live in close quarters here, they get testy with each other all the time, and it's much easier to kill someone you're mad at from a distance of a few feet than right up against them. A few days ago an innocent man was shot to death in midtown on his way to work by two young men who mistook him for a guy they'd had a scuffle with an hour earlier. Guy left behind a wife and kids. Would these young men have been so quick to kill if they'd had to do it with a knife or with their fists? Would it have slowed them enough to realize they didn't even know this guy?

I think one of the problems of our nation is we look so quickly for a one-size-fits-all solution, when most issues don't work that way, because we're such a big country.

Though, despite the fear-mongering on behalf of the NRA that liberals want to take away hunting rifles, I have yet to see anything all that reprehensible in limits that have been proposed on gun ownership-- what's wrong with a waiting period before you can buy it? What the heck does anyone need with an assault rifle (my friend's theory notwithstanding)? Can someone explain that to me why those things are wrong? It seems like owning a gun is a big responsibility; what's wrong with making it actually seem like one?

[Rileyoriley]

To be honest, I don't know Romney's religion. I personally don't follow any religion but I don't ever remember Romney's religion being discussed in Mass..
I do know his wife is a horsewoman. I believe she has MS now and doesn't ride as much.
As I said earlier, I really like him but his bluntness could be his downfall. While I don't agree with him on everything, he doesn't back down and you know exactly what you're getting with him.
I remember when a group of Katrina victims were relocated here. Romney did background checks on them (the ACLU and our state legislature had a fit about him "violating their civil rights"). His background check revealed several were registered sex offenders (level 2 and 3). He pulled out a little known state law that says background checks are legal if the people are being housed on state property which they were. Shut the ACLU right up. As a mother of a teenage daughter, I backed him all the way. Deb