Attention Manley, Jackson and all the little Gnomes

[GinaIsWild]

Put this in your pipe and smoke it. Stop threatening the industry and pay your own insurance.

Philly jockeys can't join union
By MATT HEGARTY

http://www.drf.com/news/article/81629.html

[Honu]

This situation is tough , I didnt think that jocks could be unionized because they have tried before and failed but I guess they had to do something if they didnt want to be in the Guild anymore.

I dont get what the big deal is about increasing on sight insurance policy for accidents , Im sure the owner of the race track has a really nice fat insurance policy covering a patron falling down the steps and I bet it doesnt have a 100,000.00 or even 500,000.00 ceiling on it .
While I agree that jockeys should pay for their own health insurance just like the rest of America , I dont agree that accident insurance should be limited.
The way it is now there are a whole lot of people that are leaving themselves wide open for lawsuits when a rider gets hurt and the accident insurance doesnt cover all the expenses.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Honu

This situation is tough , I didnt think that jocks could be unionized because they have tried before and failed but I guess they had to do something if they didnt want to be in the Guild anymore.

I dont get what the big deal is about increasing on sight insurance policy for accidents , Im sure the owner of the race track has a really nice fat insurance policy covering a patron falling down the steps and I bet it doesnt have a 100,000.00 or even 500,000.00 ceiling on it .
While I agree that jockeys should pay for their own health insurance just like the rest of America , I dont agree that accident insurance should be limited.
The way it is now there are a whole lot of people that are leaving themselves wide open for lawsuits when a rider gets hurt and the accident insurance doesnt cover all the expenses.

Self-employed Americans pay for their own insurance. Most insured people don't pay for their own insurance; their employer does.

The problem is, insurance companies, like any other business, are in it to make money, and they don't make money when they have to pay out claims. In the case of jockeys, it's not a case of if they'll be injured; it's when, how often and how badly. So they aren't an ideal insurance risk. Why would a company want to insure someone they won't make money off of? I can't see how the average workingman jockey could possibly afford the premiums for insurance with a high enough ceiling to cover severe injury or disability resulting from his job. They have to be high for covering him to be worth it to the company.

It's easy to have insurance for a drunk schmo who falls down the steps at the track because walking down the stairs is considered much less risky than riding in a race.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Self-employed Americans pay for their own insurance. Most insured people don't pay for their own insurance; their employer does.

The problem is, insurance companies, like any other business, are in it to make money, and they don't make money when they have to pay out claims. In the case of jockeys, it's not a case of if they'll be injured; it's when, how often and how badly. So they aren't an ideal insurance risk. Why would a company want to insure someone they won't make money off of? I can't see how the average workingman jockey could possibly afford the premiums for insurance with a high enough ceiling to cover severe injury or disability resulting from his job. They have to be high for covering him to be worth it to the company.

It's easy to have insurance for a drunk schmo who falls down the steps at the track because walking down the stairs is considered much less risky than riding in a race.

this is a good point...I think that jockeys should have a million $$ catostophic policy, but the cost of insurance is absurd...
I have a farrier friend who had to drop his insurance because the premiums were so high (since he works in a dangerous job) and some companies won't take him at all (cause he has a 'dangerous job')
My own employer pays my salary under one of his other companies...when I was added to the payroll the insurance for the entire company went up because I work with horses...one person increased the premiums for a company with 50 employees...it's maddening.

[GinaIsWild]

Originally Posted by merasmag

when u need him? hopefully, praying for these guys...i smell a strike coming and then jfeld can ride instead

I'm sorry, I just don't sympathize with these guys and their "plight" They can easily afford to fund their own insurance but they (their organization and it's leadership choose not to) would prefer to try and extort every other sector of the industry. It's a sad situation to be sure, but they are solely responsible.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Jfeld

I'm sorry, I just don't sympathize with these guys and their "plight" They can easily afford to fund their own insurance but they (their organization and it's leadership choose not to) would prefer to try and extort every other sector of the industry. It's a sad situation to be sure, but they are solely responsible.

I couldn't agree more.

When they turned down the offer in Kentucky last year, where they only had to foot a small part of the bill, and then tried to extort MORE money from horseplayers they solidified their indefensible position. THEY drew the line in the sand....not us.

[Gander]

I always think of that HBO special narrated by Shane Sellers as he is driving in his Mercedes SUV. Cry me a river. My wife and I's health insurance just went up huge for 2007, there goes any raise that I was expecting at work. Gone to pay for our healthcare.

I met Shane about 10 years ago and he was a teriffic gentleman. Mike Smith was also very nice. I had the honor of being at Siros (when it use to be good)
the night of Holy Bull's win in the Haskell. Mike was very generous that evening, but his wife (at the time) was anything but nice. Looked at us like we were dirt. Hopefully for him Chantal is nicer.

Man, what ever happened to Siros anyway? Ever since they started hiring those bands like the Refirgeartors, the place's clientel has took a nosedive.

There is a difference between health insurance and catastrophic insurance. I think there is a law that health insurance companies cannot turn someone down for health insurance. But they can turn someone down for catastrophic insurance. This is a tough one, but I think it should be up to the jocks to get their own catastrophic insurance.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Jfeld

I'm sorry, I just don't sympathize with these guys and their "plight" They can easily afford to fund their own insurance but they (their organization and it's leadership choose not to) would prefer to try and extort every other sector of the industry. It's a sad situation to be sure, but they are solely responsible.

The Jockey's Guild has mismanaged their constituent's interests for so long that they're no longer representitive of their own members. The lastest debacle involving the decision to bring in rabblerousers with their intimidation techniques rather than problemsolving horsemen with knowledge, experience, and industry respect is case in point.

They'd almost be ahead to scrap the whole mess and start from anew, if that's even feasible.

What really should be done at any track that has slots is... Provide insurance for all who work at the track, that eleviates the state or counties from having the cost on their back. It would IMO balance out rates as you would have non risk jobs and high risk pooled together. Insurance rates for horseman are out of control!! Everyday there are trainers going out of business because of the costs... We have paid over 10,000 a year when we were doing all of the work ourselves... and we were not covered if something did happen.

Insurance would be paid off the top before any percentages were delved out. The slots pull in enough money for us to care for ourselves... so why aren't we. The jocks do need to be protected... so do the rest of us who run the risk everyday for hours upon hours.. not just the one and a half minute ride in the afternoon.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Samm

What really should be done at any track that has slots is... Provide insurance for all who work at the track, that eleviates the state or counties from having the cost on their back. It would IMO balance out rates as you would have non risk jobs and high risk pooled together. Insurance rates for horseman are out of control!! Everyday there are trainers going out of business because of the costs... We have paid over 10,000 a year when we were doing all of the work ourselves... and we were not covered if something did happen.

Insurance would be paid off the top before any percentages were delved out. The slots pull in enough money for us to care for ourselves... so why aren't we. The jocks do need to be protected... so do the rest of us who run the risk everyday for hours upon hours.. not just the one and a half minute ride in the afternoon.

That would also have to include a guy who sells a tout sheet by the entrance.

The jockeys are private contractors....they want the good that goes with that but not the bad.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That would also have to include a guy who sells a tout sheet by the entrance.

The jockeys are private contractors....they want the good that goes with that but not the bad.

We are all private contractors... we all decide what we will and won't do... the trainers are contracted by owners... the help is contracted by trainers.... the jocks are contracted by both and the track is the one who is responsible for the conditions of the workplace! We are all responsible.... now if we could get simulcasting money like the jocks did... why is it just jocks?? We all put on the show and should get adequate insurance for all...

there is a top 10% in each catagory.. owner,trainer, jock, groom... they make money... the rest get scraps!

of course the sheet guy should be covered!! what if a horse ran off the track and ran him over?? just cover everybody!!

[Gander]

How about us degenerate gamblers? Shouldnt we get insurance as well considering we keep the circus going? We are the wheels that keep this train spinning and we get nothing but bad customer service and idiot trainers who publicly say people that bet horses are stupid. Wheres my medical? It could come out of the bets I make.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Gander

How about us degenerate gamblers? Shouldnt we get insurance as well considering we keep the circus going? We are the wheels that keep this train spinning and we get nothing but bad customer service and idiot trainers who publicly say people that bet horses are stupid. Wheres my medical? It could come out of the bets I make.

We should be covered as well.

Originally Posted by Gander

How about us degenerate gamblers? Shouldnt we get insurance as well considering we keep the circus going? We are the wheels that keep this train spinning and we get nothing but bad customer service and idiot trainers who publicly say people that bet horses are stupid. Wheres my medical? It could come out of the bets I make.

Gander.. I agree that there should and could be better relations with the patrons but we are in the front lines... I have suggested things to management of tracks that would be good for PR... like when you get rained out.. hand everyone a simulcast program so they will stay. They just chuckle (which pisses me off!) lol Day rates don't cut it... to properly care for a horse you need 45-50 a day and that would not include the trainers fee. So a trainer gets 60 a day... he/she is only worth 10 bucks a day??? You can't make it on 10 a day! Dunkin Donuts gets more than that a day for breakfast! Yes... trainers get 10% of a win but only one trainer can win a race.

[blackthroatedwind]

The jockey's have less right to be insured by the racetracks than we do.

Period.

We pay the bills.

The solution to this is simple. Universal health care. Of course, the lobbyists of the big insurance companies would never go for that.

I don't have a problem with customer service at tracks. I rarely interact with employees at a race track. I usually have my form printed from my computer and I typically use the self betting machines. The only person I really talk to is the conscession person and she says $7.56. I hand her a $10 and we say goodbye. What I cannot stand is when you leave your seat and the cleaning people come by and sweep everything in the garbage. Now that really pisses me off.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The jockey's have less right to be insured by the racetracks than we do.

Period.

We pay the bills.

Cool.... I'll send our bills!! Need your addy!!

[Honu]

Its not about health insurance , its about catastrophic accident insurance ,its about the private property owner being held responsible for what happens on their property.
Granted nobody is forced to be a jockey but without them the races might be a little harder to handicap if you just let the horses run around freely.
I rode races for 13 years and was never a member of the jocks Guild, I got called a scab because I chose to ride when they all went on strike in 1990-91 because I thought it was unfair to shut down the races and cost other people their livelyhoods.
If a rider who is not a Guild member rides at a place like say Great Lakes Downs where the horses are cheap and so are the purses how in the world would they be able to afford an adequate catastrophic insurance policy?
Racetracks are leaveing themselves along with horse owners and trainers, wide open for lawsuits just so people can get the medical treatment they need when it could all be prevented by having adequate insurance in place.
As I said at the top of this post its not about medical health insurance its about accident insurance , I have no medical health insurance and Im not asking anybody for any but if I chose to go back to riding tommorrow I would want to be sure that if I got hurt while on the job that my medical bills would be covered.

[Gander]

I dont have all the answers but I have great ideas to improve the industry as a whole. Some may be too far along for horse racing to understand, I am after all in advertising and our industry is about 20 years ahead of horse racing.

The average person can not stand 30 min between races. Thats far too much time. Either cut that down or offer some kind of entertainment between races like a swimming pool or health club/spa. This would also be good for people who are interested in say race 3 but not another race until race 8. It would give them something productive to do to pass the time.

Also, Saratoga race track is a waste 48 weeks out of the year. This could be turned into an ice skating rink in the winter months.

Tracks need to start hiring younger bartenders. College girls would be a great alternative to the usual older men in their 70's. We need to start giving people reasons to come to the track. I know when I go to any bar in Saratoga race track, I get served by grumpy 70 something bartenders. Whats up with that?