What Smarty Jones faced in 2004 & what Big Brown faces on Saturday....the difference?

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

In 2004, Smarty Jones was undefeated in his quest for the Triple Crown and at 1-5 looked like a lock. Big Brown faces simliar company on Saturday and he'll be the same odds. Is he that much better than Smarty Jones and if not, who looks to be the Birdstone of 2008??? I've been disappointed too many times the last ten years when we get this far, why should things be any different this year?

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

In 2004, Smarty Jones was undefeated in his quest for the Triple Crown and at 1-5 looked like a lock. Big Brown faces simliar company on Saturday and he'll be the same odds. Is he that much better than Smarty Jones and if not, who looks to be the Birdstone of 2008??? I've been disappointed too many times the last ten years when we get this far, why should things be any different this year?

Kent D is not Stewart f''n Elliot...

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by smuthg

Kent D is not Stewart f''n Elliot...

True... but he came ever so close in 1998 and f'd up much like Stewy did.

[ShadowRoll]

Smarty didn't or couldn't settle when the other horses came at him. BB doesn't need the lead and seems so pushbutton that he can be placed behind anyone gunning it to the front. Rather than be in Smarty's position, BB will be in Birdstone's position coming into the stretch. Servis talks about this at the end of this article:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/h...,3890965.story

[hockey2315]

Big Brown isn't facing similar company.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

In 2004, Smarty Jones was undefeated in his quest for the Triple Crown and at 1-5 looked like a lock. Big Brown faces simliar company on Saturday and he'll be the same odds. Is he that much better than Smarty Jones and if not, who looks to be the Birdstone of 2008??? I've been disappointed too many times the last ten years when we get this far, why should things be any different this year?

Birdstone was a Grade 1 winner on the Belmont surface handled by one of the best trainers in the sport. He also went on to win the Travers to support he was a talent. Other then Casino Royale who has race 2 times in his career what the heck does Big Brown have to beat.. Also Smarty was totally screwed be Bailey and friends. Other then that NOTHING lol

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Big Brown isn't facing similar company.

Other than Casino Drive, it looks like the same cast of characters.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Other than Casino Drive, it looks like the same cast of characters.

This year's "cast of characters" isn't in the same league as that year's was.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Birdstone was a Grade 1 winner on the Belmont surface handled by one of the best trainers in the sport. He also went on to win the Travers to support he was a talent. Other then Casino Royale who has race 2 times in his career what the heck does Big Brown have to beat.. Also Smarty was totally screwed be Bailey and friends. Other then that NOTHING lol

Birdstone wasn't really thought of before the Belmont Stakes, after all he paid $74. Casino Drive could be Rock Hard Ten of this year in the wagering. Is there anybody out there that could be the "Birdstone" in price???

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

This year's "cast of characters" isn't in the same league as that year's was.

Other than Rock Hard Ten & Purge....looks the same here.

[eajinabi]

We would already had a TC winner in Smarty Jones if not for Stewart Elliot bonehead of a ride. Ya Ya people blame Jerry Bailey for rushing eddington fast
early to duel with SJ but Elliot took the bait. And for people who think it was Baileys idea to rush early you are wrong the following articlae says it was Henning's idea.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Other than Casino Drive, it looks like the same cast of characters.

Didn't also-rans Rock Hard Ten and Eddington go on to greater things post TC? I think RHT lost just one more race in his career and accounted for the Swaps, Malibu, Strub, Big Cap and Goodwood. Eddington took the Pimlico Special, Gulfstream Park Handicap, and Calder Derby. Not sure if anyone lining up this Saturday look to have that sort of potential.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Other than Rock Hard Ten & Purge....looks the same here.

and Birdstone and Eddington. So other than those four - I guess it's the same.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Didn't also-rans Rock Hard Ten and Eddington go on to greater things post TC? I think RHT lost just one more race in his career and accounted for the Swaps, Malibu, Strub, Big Cap and Goodwood. Eddington took the Pimlico Special, Gulfstream Park Handicap, and Calder Derby. Not sure if anyone lining up this Saturday look to have that sort of potential.

But, we didn't know that going into the race. Denis of Cork, Tale of Ekati and even Ready's Echo could prove more later on this year.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Other than Rock Hard Ten & Purge....looks the same here.

You also forgot about Eddington and Birdstone

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Birdstone wasn't really thought of before the Belmont Stakes, after all he paid $74. Casino Drive could be Rock Hard Ten of this year in the wagering. Is there anybody out there that could be the "Birdstone" in price???

Birdstone was lightly raced and over looked I used him underneath I didnt think Smarty could lose. As I said Birdstone proved to be a nice little colt not great but winning the Chanpagne Belmont and Travers isnt too shabby know matter how crappy the Travers win was

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Birdstone wasn't really thought of before the Belmont Stakes, after all he paid $74. Casino Drive could be Rock Hard Ten of this year in the wagering. Is there anybody out there that could be the "Birdstone" in price???

Birdstone was winterbook favorite for the Kentucky Derby in January. Like Lemon Drop Kid, he was an example of a good horse being given up on too soon. Even Hansel, the post-time favorite in the '91 Derby, came back at 8-1 in the Preakness. Funny enough, he was 9-2 in the Belmont despite winning at Pimlico by about 7 lengths...

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

and Birdstone and Eddington. So other than those four - I guess it's the same.

Judging by those two odds in the Belmont, at that time....they weren't much. I still think it looks pretty equal on paper what Smarty faced and what Big Brown faces on Saturday.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

You also forgot about Eddington and Birdstone

Eddington was just getting real good when he got hurt and was retired. Who knows, maybe someone out of this Belmont Stakes group will be just as good as the mentioned horses.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

But, we didn't know that going into the race. Denis of Cork, Tale of Ekati and even Ready's Echo could prove more later on this year.

Good point. Denis of Cork could make a lot of noise if managed properly. Tale of Ekati, being by Tale of the Cat, no matter what his talent level, to me doesn't seem a classic type horse (I expect a Grand Slam or Scan type effort from him--which is to say he will drop out of a forward position at the top of the stretch). I'd look for him, if he were in any other barn than Barclay Tagg's, to point for mile races and extended sprints subsequently.

I have no idea who Ready's Echo is. Everytime I see his name I think of the horse that was a bad 2nd to Majestic Warrior in the Hopeful who then ran last in the Champagne. The only thing I know about him is that he's not that horse. Which is probably a good thing...