This is what we will get from Obamacare

[Cannon Shell]

This guy is insane...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...280098676.html

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This guy is insane...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...280098676.html

damn chuck, we're already on the wrong side of that graph! chilling stuff.-how would this plan be better than what we have now, where no emergency room can deny a patient regardless of ability to pay? and i noted that the good dr. is rahm emanuel's brother. is that some of that obama 'change' we were promised? sounds like the usual nepotism to me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

damn chuck, we're already on the wrong side of that graph! chilling stuff.-how would this plan be better than what we have now, where no emergency room can deny a patient regardless of ability to pay? and i noted that the good dr. is rahm emanuel's brother. is that some of that obama 'change' we were promised? sounds like the usual nepotism to me.

Obama pulled the biggest snow job in history on the people who believe they are moderates. He is a typical,radical, partisan politician. He is atypical in that he was able to fool so many people so thoroughly. The fact that the Emmanuels are big voices in the White House should be scary enough. That these two will be pulling the strings behind the scenes is chilling, especially if you are ancient like us or considering having a baby, whom dont have much societial worth according to the Presidents Medical advisor.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...280098676.html

The writer of that op-ed piece is the infamous Betsey McCaughey, famous insurance company shill. The creator and initiator of the concept of "the government death panel will kill your grandma!" as an insurance company-GOP strategy argument.

Do a bit of google and watch her on any number of cable news shows the past month, then tell me what you think of her objectivity and accuracy regarding what she says about healthcare reform.

Oh - and read the real articles she cherry picks incomplete and taken-out-of context quotes from.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

The writer of that op-ed piece is the infamous Betsey McCaughey, famous insurance company shill. The creator and initiator of the concept of "the government death panel will kill your grandma!" as an insurance company-GOP strategy argument.

Do a bit of google and watch her on any number of cable news shows the past month, then tell me what you think of her objectivity and accuracy regarding what she says about healthcare reform.

Oh - and read the real articles she cherry picks incomplete and taken-out-of context quotes from.

Oh please. She recites her sources which are easily looked up. His words arent twisted. They are crystal clear. Except to you.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

The writer of that op-ed piece is the infamous Betsey McCaughey, famous insurance company shill. The creator and initiator of the concept of "the government death panel will kill your grandma!" as an insurance company-GOP strategy argument.

Do a bit of google and watch her on any number of cable news shows the past month, then tell me what you think of her objectivity and accuracy regarding what she says about healthcare reform.

Oh - and read the real articles she cherry picks incomplete and taken-out-of context quotes from.

is the chart that was in that article something he actually did use in lancet?

is this quote incorrect? "Adolescents have received substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments. . . . As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, 'It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old dies and worse still when an adolescent does,' this argument is supported by empirical surveys." (thelancet.com, Jan. 31, 2009)


if the article presents his real quotes, and real ideas, then what does it matter who wrote it?

[Danzig]

and what about this:

According to an August 2009 report from the National Bureau of Economic Research, patients diagnosed with cancer in the U.S. have a better chance of surviving the disease than anywhere else. The World Health Organization also rates the U.S. No. 1 out of 191 countries for responsiveness to the needs and choices of the individual patient.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

is the chart that was in that article something he actually did use in lancet?

is this quote incorrect? "Adolescents have received substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments. . . . As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, 'It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old dies and worse still when an adolescent does,' this argument is supported by empirical surveys." (thelancet.com, Jan. 31, 2009)


if the article presents his real quotes, and real ideas, then what does it matter who wrote it?

That a Doctor in this country even thinks this way is frightening, not even taking into consideration that he has the Presidents ear.

That Riot supports him with her "shoot the messenger" retort is typical.

[Danzig]

i just read this in an article about obama-care...


At a town hall hosted by Democratic Rep. Jim Moran this week, one person demanded to know why the threat of medical lawsuits couldn't be reduced.

"There's $200 million dollars in savings over 10 years if we had tort reform and nobody loses but the lawyers," the person said before shouting, "Why have we not even considered that?"

Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, a proponent of health reform, responded that tort reform would create more enemies for lawmakers as they try to pass a reform bill.

"Plain and simple truth," he said.

The president of the American Medical Association says without more protections for doctors in the courtroom they will continue to order tests that may be unnecessary and drive up health care costs simply to protect themselves.

[Riot]

This messenger is worth shooting. She was fired just last week from her insurance company lobbying organization over her lack of knowledge about healthcare reform.

You can find the appearance in question on the internet and watch it yourself. It's pretty funny where she read parts of the House bill, and Stewart then points out that it clearly doesn't say what she says it says.

Nice to see WSJ is still giving Betsy, the creator of "the government will kill your grandma!" lie, a voice.

"During her appearance in the “Daily Show” with host Jon Stewart, Betsy McCaughey chewed on a lot more than she could handle. While meandering her way through the interview, her misinformed comments on the “Obama Health Care Reforms” triggered a wide ranging public outcry, with the resulting outcome being McCaughey’s resignation from the Cantel Medical Corp."

McCaughey, being the director of the Cantel Medical Corp., was curiously disillusioned about the basic facts of the reform bills. Which, however, did not deter her from embarking on an outright protest against the same."

[Danzig]

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...uel_lancet.pdf


the intro of the lancet article:



Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge. We
evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring
the worst-off , maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is
sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined
into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points
systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the
complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates
prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

[Danzig]

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/kee...-not-everyone/


[i]Obama, Aug. 15: f you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health care plan. If you like your doctor, you keep seeing your doctor. I don’t want government bureaucrats meddling in your health care. But the point is, I don’t want insurance company bureaucrats meddling in your health care either.

President Obama has repeatedly said that under the health care overhaul efforts in Congress, "if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan." But he can’t make that promise to everyone.

■In fact, under the House bill, some employers might have to modify plans after a five-year grace period if they don’t meet minimum benefits standards.

■Furthermore, some firms are likely to buy different coverage for their workers than they have now, or simply drop coverage and pay a penalty instead, leaving workers to buy their own private coverage or go on a new federal insurance plan

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

This messenger is worth shooting. She was fired just last week from her insurance company lobbying organization over her lack of knowledge about healthcare reform.

You can find the appearance in question on the internet and watch it yourself. It's pretty funny where she read parts of the House bill, and Stewart then points out that it clearly doesn't say what she says it says.

Nice to see WSJ is still giving Betsy, the creator of "the government will kill your grandma!" lie, a voice.

Keep changing the subject....

[dellinger63]

Did I say she was a moron?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This guy is insane...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...280098676.html

Well.I guess I'm insane too..I voted for him once and I'll support him again. Nice quotes as usual from the right..jeesus...Here's our side's take on this b*tch.

http://gawker.com/5337724/betsy-mccaughey-liar

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Oh please. She recites her sources which are easily looked up. His words arent twisted. They are crystal clear. Except to you.

huh

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Keep changing the subject....

Why is that changing the subject? You quote some proven liar as gospel and then dump on anyone who disputes what she says? Typical neo-con hyporicy. Shovel sh*t and whine about anyone who challenges you.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Well.I guess I'm insane too..I voted for him once and I'll support him again. Nice quotes as usual from the right..jeesus...Here's our side's take on this b*tch.

http://gawker.com/5337724/betsy-mccaughey-liar

You voted for Dr.Emmanuel? What was he running for?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You voted for Dr.Emmanuel? What was he running for?

I love Riot...She at least has the patience to put up with your crap..I don"t..

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You voted for Dr.Emmanuel? What was he running for?

I love Riot...She at least has the patience to put up with your crap..I don"t..