Muslims have gone too far

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

It seems too soon to build a mosque that close to Ground Zero. From the 9/11 families' perspectives, that must be painful to look at.

Don't say that. You will upset Riot. She thinks it's a great idea to build a mosque there.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Yeah, sometimes people who give orders that directly result in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians somehow manage to retain high approval ratings in their home areas. It is really unfortunate that it happens, but it continues to happen all over the world. The numbers Rupert cites indicating that millions of people supported a truly despicable and murderous thug like Bin Laden earlier this decade are certainly evidence of that....as was the 2004 presidential election in the U.S.

I guess you could expect many Americans to support their President. The President has to make tough decisions sometimes and people recognize that. People will often times rally around their leader. But what do Americans supporting their President have to do with Muslims supporting a terrorist? Bin Laden is not the President of anything. He's not the head of a country. He's just a guy that likes to kill people and blow things up. That's all he is. And yet tens of millions of Muslims all around the world admire and support him.

In the one case, you have the President of the United Sates making a tough decisions and the citizens of the country supporting him. In the other case, you have a guy (Bin Laden) that likes to kill people and blow things, who is not the leader of a country, blowing up the World Trade Center and killing thousands of people. You wouldn't think anybody would support or admire Bin Laden. It's not like he's the leader of anything. He's just a terrorist. Yet tens of millions of Muslims (all around the world from Indonesia to Afghanistan) support and admire him. If his philosophy was not at least somewhat representative of his religion, then you wouldn't have tens of millions of people from that religion supporting him.

[Danzig]

can't help but wonder how much of the terrorists' attitude comes from their religion, and how much comes from them wanting to be a terrorist. hell, a criminal always finds a way to justify his acts-in this case, they portray themselves as doing the work of allah. how do you argue with someone who says god, allah, jehovah, told me to? after all, if you dispute their act, you're disputing god.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

can't help but wonder how much of the terrorists' attitude comes from their religion, and how much comes from them wanting to be a terrorist. hell, a criminal always finds a way to justify his acts-in this case, they portray themselves as doing the work of allah. how do you argue with someone who says god, allah, jehovah, told me to? after all, if you dispute their act, you're disputing god.

Sharia law is pervasive...it's the "big hammer" of Islam. There's no way in hell America would allow it....but Europe is under siege because of it.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Not quite...She just isn't willing to put all Muslims in interment camps like you and Scuds are, that's all. A bad Christian, is a bad Jew, is a bad Athiest is a bad Muslim, etc...There are millions of muslims that want to hurt us and many more millions that don't. I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Point is that there are zero good Muslims. Why am I so sure of that? Quite simply you can't be a fan of somebody who did the following things to people, and be a good person (unless, of course, you use Bob's Apologetic Methods n' Tactics.)

Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

You wouldn't say fans of Hitler are "good people." Why would you say fans of this scum are good people? Do you really understand who they admire? Really? Sir, this man was/is evil. I'm sorry that you are so worried about offending people that you simply ignore the fact these are evil's supporters. See, I can go on with this forever, because (in this situation) you will always be on the side of evil. I have so many weapons to destroy any apologetic arguments you come up with, because there will never be a good reason to ignore the fact that people support evil. Anyone who says they are a Muslim is telling you that their holy person is someone who had 800-900 Jews beheaded. BOB, that's not a good person. Good people aren't fans of that individual. I'm not saying to put them in camps, but I don't want any more allowed to come here (at all.) I can't make people care about evil. They either do, or they don't. If you people want to say not all Muslims believe what their prophet believed, then I want to hear it from them (in front of other Muslims.) It's a long list of stuff they would have to not believe in.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

This is the Murderer's actions n' statements. You support the fans of this killer thug. Be proud. The fans of a murderer are "of course, good people, too."

Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."

Tabari VIII:141 "The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!'"

Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive."

Ishaq:489 "Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing."

Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter."

Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."

Bukhari:V4B52N270 "Allah's Messenger said, 'Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.' Maslama got up saying, 'Would you like me to kill him?' The Prophet proclaimed, 'Yes.' Maslama said, 'Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.' Muhammad said, 'You may do so.'"

Ishaq:368 "Ka'b's body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad's order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet."

Tabari VII:97
Ishaq:368 "We carried Ka'b's head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah's enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf's head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah's Cause. Our attack upon Allah's enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.'"

Tabari VII:97 "The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, 'Kill any Jew who falls under your power.'"

Ishaq:369 "Thereupon Mas'ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim's brother complained, saying, 'Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.' Mas'ud answered, 'By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.' Wherein the brother said, 'Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!' And he accepted Islam."

Bukhari:V1B1N6 "Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country."

Ishaq: 676 "'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"

Bukhari:V1B11N626 "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.'"

Tabari VIII:178
Ishaq:550 "Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka'aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa'd [the Qur'an's one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah's Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur'an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam]."
Tabari VIII:179 "Abdallah bin Sa'd fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammad did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammad explained, 'By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!' One of the Ansar said, 'Why didn't you give me a sign?' Allah's Apostle replied, 'A prophet does not kill by pointing.'"

Tabari VIII:179
Ishaq:550 "Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his.... His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa'id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her."


Ishaq:551 "Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas' assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam."

Tabari VIII:180 "Also among those eliminated were Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl and Sarah, a slave of one of Abd Muttalib's sons. She taunted Muhammad while he was in Mecca."

Tabari VIII:181 "The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim."

Bukhari:V4B52N281 "They took Khubaib to Mecca after the battle of Badr. He had killed Harith, a Meccan nobleman. The Quraysh gathered to kill him in retribution.... Khubaib wanted to offer two Rakat (prayers). They allowed this and he said, 'O Allah, kill them all with no exception.' He then recited the poetic verse: 'I'm being martyred as a Muslim. I do not mind how I am killed in Allah's Cause. For my killing is for Allah's Sake. If Allah wishes, He will bless the amputated parts of my torn body.' Then the son of Harith [the man Khubaib had murdered] killed him."


Ishaq:597 "When the Apostle returned to Medina after his raid on Ta'if, word spread that he had killed some of the men who had satirized and insulted him. The poets who were left spread in all directions."

Tabari IX:76 "Malik has reported to me that you were the first from Himyar to embrace Islam and that you have killed infidels, so rejoice at your good fortune."

Tabari IX:121 "When it was feasible for me, I struck him with my sword and killed him. Then I departed, leaving his women to throw themselves at him. When I returned to the Prophet, he asked, 'Is your mission accomplished?' 'Yes. I have killed him.'"

Ishaq:308
Tabari VII:65 "When the Apostle was in Safra, Nadr was assassinated. When Muhammad reached Irq al-Zabyah he killed Uqbah. When the Prophet ordered him to be killed, Uqbah said, 'Who will look after my children, Muhammad?' "Hellfire,' the Apostle replied, and he was killed."

Tabari VII:85 "Muhammad killed many Quraysh polytheists at Badr."


Tabari VII:99 "In this year, the killing of Abu Rafi the Jew took place. The Messenger sent some Ansar under the command of Abd Allah and Abd Allah against the Jew. Abu Rafi used to injure and wrong the Prophet.... Abd Allah said to the others, 'Stay where you are, and I will go and ingratiate myself with the doorkeeper to gain entrance.'"

Tabari VII:100 "Every time I opened a door, I shut it behind me from the inside, saying to myself, 'If they become aware, they will not have time to stop me from killing him.' When I reached Rafi, he was in a dark room with his family. As I did not know where he was in the room, I said, 'O Abu Rafi.' When he replied, I proceeded toward the voice and gave him a blow with my sword. He shouted and I came back, pretending to be a helper. I said, 'O Abu,' changing the tone of my voice. He asked me, 'I don't know who came to strike me with his sword.' Then I drove my sword into his belly and pushed it forcibly till it touched the bone. I hit him again and covered him with wounds, but I could not kill him, so I thrust the point of my sword into his stomach until it came out through his back. At that, I knew that I had killed him [in front of his wife and children]. I came out, filled with puzzlement, and went towards a ladder in order to get down but I fell into a moonlit night and sprained my foot. I bound it with my turban and moved on. I came to my companions and said, 'By Allah, I will not leave till I hear the wailing of their women.' So, I did not move till I heard them crying for the Jewish merchant. I said, 'Deliverance! Allah has killed Abu Rafi.' I got up, feeling no ailment, and proceeded till we came upon the Prophet and informed him."

Tabari VII:101 "The Khazraj asked the Prophet for permission to kill Sallam Huqayq, who was in Khaybar. He granted this."


Ishaq:482 "One of the favors which Allah conferred upon his Prophet was that these two tribes of the Ansar, the Aws and the Khazraj, used to vie with one another like stallions to carry out the will of Muhammad. The Aws did not do anything which benefited him without the Khazraj saying, 'By Allah they will not gain superiority over us in Islam in the eyes of the Messenger by doing this.' And they would not cease until they had done something similar. Thus when the Aws killed Ka'b Ashraf on account of his hostility to Muhammad, the Khazraj conferred to find a man comparable to Ka'b in hostility and called to mind Sallam Huqayq in Khaybar. They asked the Prophet for permission to kill him, and it was granted."

Tabari VII:101
Ishaq:483 "Sallam's wife came out and we told her that we were Arabs in search of supplies. When we entered, we bolted the door on her so she gave a shout to warn him of our presence. We rushed upon him with our swords as he lay in his bed. He took his pillow and tried to fend us off. Abd Allah thrust his sword into his stomach and transfixed him while he was shouting, 'Enough! Enough!' At once we went out but Abd Allah had bad eyesight, and he fell off the stairway, bruising his leg or arm. 'How shall we know that the enemy of Allah is dead?' one of us asked. 'I will go and look,' one replied. He set off and mingled with the people. He said, 'I found him with the men of the Jews, and with his wife, who had a lamp in her hand, peering into his face. She said, 'By the God of the Jews, he is dead.' I never heard any more pleasing words than these. We went to the Messenger of Allah and told him that we had killed the enemy of Allah. We disagreed in his presence about the killing of Sallam, each of us claiming to have done it. The Prophet said, 'Bring me your swords.' We did and he looked at them. He said, 'This sword of Abd Allah killed him. I can see the marks left by bones on it.'"

Ishaq:483 "Allah, what a fine band you have, one willing to kill Sallam and Ashraf! We went with sharp swords, like fighting lions. We came upon their homes and made them drink death with our swift-slaying swords. Looking for the victory of our Prophet's religion, we ignored every risk."


Tabari VII:112
Ishaq:372 "When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, 'Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden!' I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, 'If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face.' Sa'd rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jew's head open."

Ishaq:403 "Allah killed twenty-two polytheists at Uhud."


Tabari VII:147 "Amr was sent by Muhammad to kill Abu Sufyan [the Quraysh leader and merchant]. The Prophet said, 'Go to Abu Sufyan and kill him.' ...When I entered Mecca I had a dagger ready to slay anybody who laid hold of me. My Ansar companion asked, 'Should we start by circumambulating the Ka'aba seven times and praying two rak'ahs?' I said, 'I know the Meccans better than you do.' But he kept pestering me until in the end we went to the Ka'aba, circumambulated it seven times, and prayed."

Tabari VII:148 "One of the Meccans recognized me and shouted, 'That is Amr!' They rushed after us, saying, 'By Allah, Amr has not come here for any good purpose! He has come for some evil reason.' Amr had been a cutthroat and a desperado before accepting Islam."

Tabari VII:148 "Amr said, 'Let's wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, 'If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.' So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, 'By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.' The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away."

Tabari VII:149 "I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, 'Who's there?' I said [lied], 'I'm a Banu Bakr.' 'So am I.' Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: 'I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.' I said, 'You will soon see!' Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad."


Tabari VII:150 "I had tied my prisoner's thumbs together with my bowstring. The Messenger of Allah looked at him and laughed so that his back teeth could be seen. Then he questioned me and I told him what had happened. 'Well done!' he said, and prayed for me to be blessed."

Ishaq:434 "Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, 'You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.'"

Tabari VIII:22 "Hassan was with the women and children. A Jew passed by and began to walk around his settlement. There was no one to protect them while the Apostle and his Companions were at the Meccans' throats. So I said: 'Hassan, this Jew is walking around. I fear he will point out our weakness while the Muslims are too busy to attend to us. So go down to him and kill him."

Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Tabari VIII:90 "Abu Basir went out with his companions. When they stopped to rest he asked one of them, 'Is this sword of yours sharp?' 'Yes,' he replied. 'May I look at it?' Basir asked. 'If you wish.' Basir unsheathed the sword, attacked the man, and killed him. The other Muslim ran back to the Messenger, saying, 'Your Companion has killed my friend.' While the man was still there, Abu Basir appeared girded with the sword. He halted before Muhammad and said, 'Messenger, your obligation has been discharged.'"

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Point is that there are zero good Muslims. Why am I so sure of that? Quite simply you can't be a fan of somebody who did the following things to people, and be a good person (unless, of course, you use Bob's Apologetic Methods n' Tactics.)

Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

You wouldn't say fans of Hitler are "good people." Why would you say fans of this scum are good people? Do you really understand who they admire? Really? Sir, this man was/is evil. I'm sorry that you are so worried about offending people that you simply ignore the fact these are evil's supporters. See, I can go on with this forever, because (in this situation) you will always be on the side of evil. I have so many weapons to destroy any apologetic arguments you come up with, because there will never be a good reason to ignore the fact that people support evil. Anyone who says they are a Muslim is telling you that their holy person is someone who had 800-900 Jews beheaded. BOB, that's not a good person. Good people aren't fans of that individual. I'm not saying to put them in camps, but I don't want any more allowed to come here (at all.) I can't make people care about evil. They either do, or they don't. If you people want to say not all Muslims believe what their prophet believed, then I want to hear it from them (in front of other Muslims.) It's a long list of stuff they would have to not believe in.

Riot forgot to read that part of the Koran.

[Riot]

Context matters, especially within religion:

Virgins play a prominant role everywhere - kill everyone, but save the virgins for oneself as a reward: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

A prophet kills off the opposition: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me"

And don't try and leave a religion, or worship another deity. People who do that should be killed, even if a brother, wife, son, daughter:

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God,

So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Riot forgot to read that part of the Koran.

No, Riot doesn't ignore anything that doesn't feed into a preconceived hate meme. Hate a few million people, and hate anybody who doesn't join your hate. That's a real win-win situation. Good luck with that. Stand up and be proud of it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

can't help but wonder how much of the terrorists' attitude comes from their religion, and how much comes from them wanting to be a terrorist. hell, a criminal always finds a way to justify his acts-in this case, they portray themselves as doing the work of allah. how do you argue with someone who says god, allah, jehovah, told me to? after all, if you dispute their act, you're disputing god.

Precisely and simply How different is that from David Berkowitz taking his killing instructions from a dog?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

can't help but wonder how much of the terrorists' attitude comes from their religion, and how much comes from them wanting to be a terrorist. hell, a criminal always finds a way to justify his acts-in this case, they portray themselves as doing the work of allah. how do you argue with someone who says god, allah, jehovah, told me to? after all, if you dispute their act, you're disputing god.

That is a good point and groups like Al Qaeda will use this to their advantage. They will often recruit violent, angry, young men that are looking for an excuse to act out.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, Riot doesn't ignore anything that doesn't feed into a preconceived hate meme. Hate a few million people, and hate anybody who doesn't join your hate. That's a real win-win situation. Good luck with that. Stand up and be proud of it.

No, that is not the case at all. I didn't say that all Muslims are bad and I didn't say that we should hate all Muslims. I never said anything of the kind.

What I am saying is that there are plenty of people out there that have concerns about Islam and rightfully so. I certainly have concerns about it and I am critical of the religion at times.

People like you who are so politically correct, don't think that it's ever proper to question or be critical of a group or religion. You think that any type of criticism equals hate. That is absurd.

If Christians started blowing up buildings tomorrow and a decent percentage (15% or so) of Christians supported it, I would be crtitical of that too. I would be very concerned. I would think it was a very dangerous trend just as I do with Islam. That wouldn't mean that I hate all Christians.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Point is that there are zero good Muslims. Why am I so sure of that? Quite simply you can't be a fan of somebody who did the following things to people, and be a good person (unless, of course, you use Bob's Apologetic Methods n' Tactics.)

Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

You wouldn't say fans of Hitler are "good people." Why would you say fans of this scum are good people? Do you really understand who they admire? Really? Sir, this man was/is evil. I'm sorry that you are so worried about offending people that you simply ignore the fact these are evil's supporters. See, I can go on with this forever, because (in this situation) you will always be on the side of evil. I have so many weapons to destroy any apologetic arguments you come up with, because there will never be a good reason to ignore the fact that people support evil. Anyone who says they are a Muslim is telling you that their holy person is someone who had 800-900 Jews beheaded. BOB, that's not a good person. Good people aren't fans of that individual. I'm not saying to put them in camps, but I don't want any more allowed to come here (at all.) I can't make people care about evil. They either do, or they don't. If you people want to say not all Muslims believe what their prophet believed, then I want to hear it from them (in front of other Muslims.) It's a long list of stuff they would have to not believe in.

The one thing you have to remember is that there are plenty of Muslims that don't take the Koran literally. I'm sure there are plenty of Muslims that are Muslims because of tradition and that type of thing. They may have never even read the Koran.

I know that is the case with many religions. I have plenty of Jewish friends that don't believe anything in the Bible yet they still go to temple and it is important to them to be Jewish. Alot of it probably has to do with tradition and an identification with the Jewish people.

[Riot]

What I am saying is that there are plenty of people out there that have concerns about Islam and rightfully so. I certainly have concerns about it and I am critical of the religion at times.

Isn't your concern about this religion rather based in your justified concern for terrorism, that terrorism being presented within the context of something unfamiliar and unknown to you?

Did the horror perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh make you reassess Christianity? To look more closely at it's teachings? How many Christians who kill strangers coldly in the name of their god would it take to scare you? 15% or so? C'mon It's not a number, it's the unfamiliarity.

People like you who are so politically correct, don't think that it's ever proper to question or be critical of a group or religion. You think that any type of criticism equals hate. That is absurd.

Well, the above isn't at all what I have posted about on this board in the least regarding this subject, let alone to close to what I think.

First, "political correctness" has nothing to do with how I think about this. I haven't said one word about being critical of a group or religion. In fact, I support that. Have it it. Be as critical or questioning as you want. I believe one should deeply and seriously question any and all religious beliefs. No, criticism of a religion that does not equal hate in my view at all - it equates to reasoned examination if done objectively.

Objectively.

What I believe - and what I have actually posted - is that I find it reprehensibly immoral and wrong, on a deeply basic human level, to characterize millions of people based upon the acts of a few. To take one common denominator and broadly discredit entire populations.

People hate what they fear.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That is a good point and groups like Al Qaeda will use this to their advantage. They will often recruit violent, angry, young men that are looking for an excuse to act out.

I agree completely.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Isn't your concern about this religion rather based in your justified concern for terrorism, that terrorism being presented within the context of something unfamiliar and unknown to you?

Did the horror perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh make you reassess Christianity? To look more closely at it's teachings? How many Christians who kill strangers coldly in the name of their god would it take to scare you? 15% or so? C'mon It's not a number, it's the unfamiliarity.



Well, the above isn't at all what I have posted about on this board in the least regarding this subject, let alone to close to what I think.

First, "political correctness" has nothing to do with how I think about this. I haven't said one word about being critical of a group or religion. In fact, I support that. Have it it. Be as critical or questioning as you want. I believe one should deeply and seriously question any and all religious beliefs. No, criticism of a religion that does not equal hate in my view at all - it equates to reasoned examination if done objectively.

Objectively.

What I believe - and what I have actually posted - is that I find it reprehensibly immoral and wrong, on a deeply basic human level, to characterize millions of people based upon the acts of a few. To take one common denominator and broadly discredit entire populations.

People hate what they fear.

First of all, Timothy McVeigh did not kill in the name of Christianity. Second, he doesn't have any followers. If Timothy McVeigh had killed in the name of Christianity and if even 10% of Christians supported and admired him, I would be very concerned. I would wonder what Christianity was coming to. And this would be the case even more so, if it wasn't an isolated case. What if it got to the point where there were suicide bombings all the time, in many different countries all in the name of Christianity. I would be extremely concerned and would be critical of Christians who supported it. Would that be bigoted on my part?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

First of all, Timothy McVeigh did not kill in the name of Christianity. Second, he doesn't have any followers. If Timothy McVeigh had killed in the name of Christianity and if even 10% of Christians supported and admired him, I would be very concerned. I would wonder what Christianity was coming to. And this would be the case even more so, if it wasn't an isolated case. What if it got to the point where there were suicide bombings all the time, in many different countries all in the name of Christianity. I would be extremely concerned and would be critical of Christians who supported it. Would that be bigoted on my part?

We were not attacked on 9-11 because we are infidels who are not Islamic. We were attacked because the terrorists didn't like our political policies in the middle east. We were not attacked in the name of religion. We were attacked in the name of politics. Their belief in their god gave them strength.

Tim McVeigh attacked a federal building in the name of politics. His belief in his god gave him strength.

What is the problem - the religion, or the hate the terrorist, domestic or foreign, has for our federal government? It is not the religion.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

We were not attacked on 9-11 because we are infidels who are not Islamic. We were attacked because the terrorists didn't like our political policies in the middle east. We were not attacked in the name of religion. We were attacked in the name of politics. Their belief in their god gave them strength.

Tim McVeigh attacked a federal building in the name of politics. His belief in his god gave him strength.

What is the problem - the religion, or the hate the terrorist, domestic or foreign, has for our federal government? It is not the religion.

Bin Laden's political goals are really a means to an end and that end is about religion. He wants to overthrow governments and put Islamic extremists in power to practice his brand of Islam. The US wants democracy in the Middle East. Bin Laden wants repressive regimes in the Middle East that force people to practice his brand of Islam. Bin Laden obviously does not want us meddling and promoting democracy in the Middle East because that interferes with his goals. So I agree with you that Bin Laden doesn't like our policies in the Middle East but I think the reason he doesn't like them is because they hinder his goal of spreading extremist Islamic ideology in the Middle East. It's not just about politics.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

We were not attacked on 9-11 because we are infidels who are not Islamic. We were attacked because the terrorists didn't like our political policies in the middle east. We were not attacked in the name of religion. We were attacked in the name of politics. Their belief in their god gave them strength.

Tim McVeigh attacked a federal building in the name of politics. His belief in his god gave him strength.

What is the problem - the religion, or the hate the terrorist, domestic or foreign, has for our federal government? It is not the religion.

The problem is people like you that make excuses for people that worship scum. I just gave you how many instances of this scum killing people. Not some sidekick. Their f'n prophet. The main dude is cutting people's heads off, because they refuse to believe his crap. We don't have other religions where the prophet is beheading 800-900 people at a time. You wonder why they behead people? Why they fry 3000 people in skyscrapers? Why they stone women to death? It's because they worship this scum that did these things. It's is their "religion" that causes this stuff. It's not politics. It's starts n' ends with that beast they choose to worship. We shouldn't have to live with people that worship a guy who beheaded innocent people. Common sense will tell you that's a loser. Here we have 20-25% of the world's population worshiping a guy that beheaded 800-900 JEWS at a time, and we wonder why these Muslims hunger for Jewish Blood?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Bin Laden's political goals are really a means to an end and that end is about religion. He wants to overthrow governments and put Islamic extremists in power to practice his brand of Islam.

Yes, his brand. of Islam. Not Islam in general. A narrowly interpreted, personally formed, terroristic view that feeds his own political interests. His political interests are first and foremost. Don't forget his personal heritage and wealth, his origins, his political views during his life.