Ahhhhh she did it!!!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

I meant unbutton their pants I suppose. Oops. Please don't lower zippers sitting next to your cousin and Auntie Martha.

lol

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

rachel won her race faster than blame.
zenyatta on the other hand ran slower than rail trip.

now, props to her consistency for going 17-0. but consistency and greatness aren't interchangeable words. one of congaree's best races, the one in which everyone's respect for him grew, was his nose loss to milwaukee brew in the big 'cap.

Zen and Blame had to actually compete.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

It should make anyone who thinks she is a legitimate contender to beat males in a race like the BC Classic understand that she's not there yet. At all.

NT

She's has won this. You folks are so biased against her that you've stricken this from your brains. She's shown zero signs of not liking the dirt. Her trainer uses the dirt track at HWD PARK. This trainer prefers to run on dirt. The only way she'd not be a legit contender in this year's BC Classic is if it was being run on the Poly at Del Mar. I can see her getting beat at 9f or shorter, but at 10f, you're nuts to say she isn't a legit contender. Her and Blame are 10f horses.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Zen and Blame had to actually compete.

wait...so, you're saying they ran more slowly because they had competition?? had they had no one to chase down, they'd have run faster? hmm, thanks for clearing that up.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

wait...so, you're saying they ran more slowly because they had competition?? had they had no one to chase down, they'd have run faster? hmm, thanks for clearing that up.

I'm saying if you put in that horse that Baffert won the SAH with, then Rachel, or Rail Trip will get eatin' up late (especially at 10f) by Zenyatta (or Blame.) When these two you're talking about get to lay off a moderate pace, then it's all about whether they feel competition when they engage for the lead. If they get in the 5 mil race, they will either have to go faster (in the middle) than they want to, or they will have company when they go for the lead at the top of the stretch. Neither want 10f, so they will get run by (like the 8-9f lover Gio Ponte did when she had 10f to get him.) She's run down anything put in front of her so far, but keep trying animals. We'll see. She's the best competitor I have ever seen. Whether she could beat other really good 10f horses of the past? I don't know. She'd sure try. I don't think anyone was gunna beat Curlin the day he won the B.C. Classic. See, this is what people do when they hate a horse. They start trying to run it against horses from the past.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I'm saying if you put in that horse that Baffert won the SAH with, then Rachel, or Rail Trip will get eatin' up late (especially at 10f) by Zenyatta (or Blame.) When these two you're talking about get to lay off a moderate pace, then it's all about whether they feel competition when they engage for the lead.

Misremembered... He is better on dirt, check out his Clark... He was injured, working back now I think

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They start trying to run it against horses from the past.

It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present more than once per year.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by ManilaRose

It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present more than once per year.

Pretty much.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by ManilaRose

It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present more than once per year.

I think all the doubts people had about her going into the B.C. last year were legit. I didn't know if she could run to the level of her competition. She proved she will do that. Yesterday, she proved she will run down a horse streakin' to the wire in front of her (while carrying 9 lbs. less.) She runs to the level of her competition. She competes. That's why I don't think these higher numbers are that important. She will run what she has to run to be first. People obviously don't believe that. I think she'll prove it to them, but she's not gunna run faster than she has to. Folks, this is a great competitor. They do this. They look like they can easily be beaten, but it is not easy to beat them. She is teasing you.....Say what you will about the owner/trainer, but don't confuse it (their timidness) for a lack of gameness by the horse. She obviously thinks she can run anyone down, and she likes to do it in a way that infuriates her haters.

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I think all the doubts people had about her going into the B.C. last year were legit. I didn't know if she could run to the level of her competition. She proved she will do that. Yesterday, she proved she will run down a horse streakin' to the wire in front of her (while carrying 9 lbs. less.) She runs to the level of her competition. She competes. That's why I don't think these higher numbers are that important. She will run what she has to run to be first. People obviously don't believe that. I think she'll prove it to them, but she's not gunna run faster than she has to. Folks, this is a great competitor. They do this. They look like they can easily be beaten, but it is not easy to beat them. She is teasing you.....Say what you will about the owner/ trainer, but don't confuse it for a lack of gameness by the horse. She obviously thinks she can run anyone down, and she likes to do it in a way that infuriates her haters.

I like the horse and everything you say MAY very well be true, but there is no way of knowing that by setting in Cali beating a bunch of sorry fillies. What infuriates me is that the connections aren't willing to truly find out how this filly stacks up against the top competition on a consistent basis. They are doing a disservice to the horse. They want to tell us how great she is rather than show us. When she fails to win HOY again this year they will whine and moan just like last year when in reality they have nobody to blame but themselves.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by ManilaRose

I like the horse and everything you say MAY very well be true, but there is no way of knowing that by setting in Cali beating a bunch of sorry fillies. What infuriates me is that the connections aren't willing to truly find out how this filly stacks up against the top competition on a consistent basis. They are doing a disservice to the horse. They want to tell us how great she is rather than show us. When she fails to win HOY again this year they will whine and moan just like last year when in reality they have nobody to blame but themselves.

Well, when you win a 5 mil dollar race, and people poo poo it, then you don't really deserve to have her come back there MUCH. She should be racing in the Big Cap, and the Gold Cup, though.

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by ManilaRose

It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present.

It may not have seemed like much from a couple thousand miles away, but yesterday Zenyatta beat the horse that was the favorite in the 2010 Santa Anita Handicap....St. Trinians.


And yesterday Zenyatta bested Zardana easily. The same Zardana who won over Rachel Alexandra on the dirt at the Fair Grounds in March of 2010.


Two races back Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Kentucky Derby.


In the same race Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Belmont Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Travers Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Jockey Club Gold Cup.


Seems to me like she's been in against some good present day company.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

It may not have seemed like much from a couple thousand miles away, but yesterday Zenyatta beat the horse that was the favorite in the 2010 Santa Anita Handicap....St. Trinians.

That seems to say a hell of a lot more about the Big Cap field than it does about St Trinians. Yes, Zenyatta beat some good horses in the Classic, we get it. She also got them all on her home field. The point is it's way past time for something more challenging than Sunday's race.

[letswastemoney]

Yes St. Trinians was the favorite in the SA Handicap. But she finished 6th!

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oh, and it wasn't my 'handicapping method'. i know some pointed out that rachel ran her 9 faster than blame, so it seemed obvious that this time would come up as well, zens vs rail trip. may be a bit simplistic, but it's also a measurable fact.

oh, and by the way:

HOL-Californian S (G2): Rail Trip 108 (R. Ellis/R. Bejarano)

HOL_Vanity H (G1): Zenyatta 103 (J. Shirreffs/M. Smith)


but i'm sure that's being simplistic as well....

All the figs say are they are in the same ballpark, on synth you have to view them with a much broader view. Zenyatta ran a 12.03 final 8th, where Rail Trip ran 12.87 carrying 11lbs less. On synth these are when races are usually won.

Regardless, I agree with Mike Smith's comments after the race, she may have needed this race and believe it or not she may move fwd from this race, in addition Moss was quoted as saying Delmar was not written in stone via Hovday. We will see.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

All the figs say are they are in the same ballpark, on synth you have to view them with a much broader view. Zenyatta ran a 12.03 final 8th, where Rail Trip ran 12.87 carrying 11lbs less. On synth these are when races are usually won.

Regardless, I agree with Mike Smith's comments after the race, she may have needed this race and believe it or not she may move fwd from this race, in addition Moss was quoted as saying Delmar was not written in stone via Hovday. We will see.

yeah, i noted their comments she had lost weight, and her works were slower than normal. hopefully all is well, and she won't take the usual tack....this mare needs to go in the pac classic if she runs at del mar.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

It may not have seemed like much from a couple thousand miles away, but yesterday Zenyatta beat the horse that was the favorite in the 2010 Santa Anita Handicap....St. Trinians.


And yesterday Zenyatta bested Zardana easily. The same Zardana who won over Rachel Alexandra on the dirt at the Fair Grounds in March of 2010.


Two races back Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Kentucky Derby.


In the same race Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Belmont Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Travers Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Jockey Club Gold Cup.


Seems to me like she's been in against some good present day company.

Riiiiight, and Zenyatta did all this by traveling across country and running on a surface she hadnt even sniffed before??? Oh thats right it was the other way around. She beat them all on a surface none of these horses had ever raced on in her own back yard.

And NO that is not the same Zardana that we saw in March. Proven by her prior race.

Why you people continue to compare apples to oranges is beyond me, this argument is complete nonsense.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well, when you win a 5 mil dollar race, and people poo poo it, then you don't really deserve to have her come back there MUCH. She should be racing in the Big Cap, and the Gold Cup, though.

exactly

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, i noted their comments she had lost weight, and her works were slower than normal. hopefully all is well, and she won't take the usual tack....this mare needs to go in the pac classic if she runs at del mar.

Judging by Sheriff's comments he will probably ship after Delmar if they go at Delmar, he needs a filler race to bridge between her last prep and the BCC. From the sounds of it he doesn't sound too gung ho about the Delmar surface and the inconsistencies of it, nor is he too concerned about running her for HOY honors. She's going to carry 130+ if she is going in any filly/mare race, I believe The Beldame is a weight for age race so this might make sense before the BCC, 1 ship, kill 2 birds with one stone.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Yes St. Trinians was the favorite in the SA Handicap. But she finished 6th!

Never let a fact get in the way of a good arguement!

Really though, St. Trinians is most likely the 2nd best female horse on the west coast. Maybe blind luck or her.. Its not an insult to say you beat St Trinians while giving 9 pounds (though Zen should be racing against males) She looked like a winner in the stretch and Zen ran her down in a thrilling fasion. St. Trinians' leg is scary though.. i thought she was going to start flying like a helicopter with that propeller.

About westcoasts Zardana statement though... Zardana isnt the same on poly as she is on dirt.. and to bring up the march 2010 race is just dumb considering it was off a 7 month layoff. Rachel beat Zardana by the same amount or more than Zen did two races back, didnt she? What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. (just proving that the Zardana argument is stupid)