Shirreffs says Zenyatta deserves '10 Horse of the Year - Page 11

Cannon Shell · #**201** 10-20-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Cannon, I got it. I think some here do reluctantly respect her, however I was touching on the one's that don't.

I really dont know of anyone that doesnt respect her. I do know many that don't respect the vast majority of her competition. Sometimes the Zenyattaites blur that line.

It is a huge accomplishment to win that many races in a row, especially with her running style. But in horseracing the strength of schedule and margin of victory are just as important. She can win the BC Classic and retire 20 for 20 and have her special place in history. But those believing that her overall racing record places her with the greats of the game just don't have a very good understanding of the history of the sport.

10 pnt move up · #**202** 10-20-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I really dont know of anyone that doesnt respect her.

this is a joke right?

CSC · #**203** 10-20-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I really dont know of anyone that doesnt respect her. I do know many that don't respect the vast majority of her competition. Sometimes the Zenyattaites blur that line.

It is a huge accomplishment to win that many races in a row, especially with her running style. But in horseracing the strength of schedule and margin of victory are just as important. She can win the BC Classic and retire 20 for 20 and have her special place in history. But those believing that her overall racing record places her with the greats of the game just don't have a very good understanding of the history of the sport.

Yep, I understand this and it is a fair criticism. The term Zenyattaturd is such a generalization that I really don't know what it means anymore. Regardless of her competition I have seen enough of her to know she is a special horse, I said earlier this week there is still 1-5% of me that needs confirmation, and that's what brings us to the classic. Sheriffs and Moss have made their beds, if it comes down to one race to define her, win - lose that is what we have. Unfortunate as most horses throw in clunkers now and then, but it is what it is.

Cannon Shell · #**204** 10-20-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

this is a joke right?

Show me an example

Cannon Shell · #**205** 10-20-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Yep, I understand this and it is a fair criticism. The term Zenyattaturd is such a generalization that I really don't know what it means anymore. Regardless of her competition I have seen enough of her to know she is a special horse, I said earlier this week there is still 1-5% of me that needs confirmation, and that's what brings us to the classic. Sheriffs and Moss have made their beds, if it comes down to one race to define her, win - lose that is what we have. Unfortunate as most horses throw in clunkers now and then, but it is what it is.

In your opinion she is special. That is the crux of the problem. They had plenty of opportunities to define her greatness yet here we are after 19 races still debating her merits. Take any great horse and go back to the weeks before their last race. Name one horse whose credentials would be questioned as much as this filly's?

Dahoss · #**206** 10-20-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

She could run her best race and still finish second, Blame or Quality Road could both run career highs? Lookin at Lucky is an improving 3 yr old and could be deemed as extremely dangerous, and finally those that believe Zenyatta has beaten nothing in her career, as you have pointed out many times here would entertain the thought atleast.

Answer a question directly for once. Why would anyone offer 10-1 on a horse that will be a prohibitive favorite? It makes no sense.

10 pnt move up · #**207** 10-20-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In your opinion she is special. That is the crux of the problem. They had plenty of opportunities to define her greatness yet here we are after 19 races still debating her merits. Take any great horse and go back to the weeks before their last race. Name one horse whose credentials would be questioned as much as this filly's?

She was a 5 year old filly winning the BC Classic...that means something. Fillies dont win that race.

10 pnt move up · #**208** 10-20-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Answer a question directly for once. Why would anyone offer 10-1 on a horse that will be a prohibitive favorite? It makes no sense.

as a bookmaker maybe to attract all the action because they feel she should be 100/1?

slotdirt · #**209** 10-20-2010, 05:05 PM

If I had a load of cash, I'd pay whomever would take it to not run Zenyatta at CD and instead go in some fake race out in CA just so I wouldn't have to hear about Jay Hovdey's Zenyatta boner for the next five years if she actually won.

slotdirt · #**210** 10-20-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

She was a 5 year old filly winning the BC Classic...that means something. Fillies dont win that race.

She was a mare, not a filly. FYI.

Dahoss · #**211** 10-20-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

She was a 5 year old filly winning the BC Classic...that means something. Fillies dont win that race.

It would have meant a lot more on dirt. It's not her fault the decision was made to run the Breeders Cup there, but to ignore the surface it was run over is missing a giant part of the equation. Unless of course you think Gio Ponti would have been 2nd in that race on dirt.

Dahoss · #**212** 10-20-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

as a bookmaker maybe to attract all the action because they feel she should be 100/1?

I hope this is some of your well known humor.

hockey2315 · #**213** 10-20-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

as a bookmaker maybe to attract all the action because they feel she should be 100/1?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

No sentient being on the planet with any understanding of numbers would put her fair odds at 100-1. . . especially those in the business of setting lines and taking bets.

Cannon Shell · #**214** 10-20-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

She was a 5 year old filly winning the BC Classic...that means something. Fillies dont win that race.

Sure it is a nice accomplishment. Of course prior to the 08 running Turf horses rarely won that race either. And if she hadn't run last year then a turf horse would have won again. But do you seriously want to use the 09 Classic as the measuring stick to use against the greats of the game? Even the colts that she beat are not particularly accomplished. At least not on the dirt.

CSC · #**215** 10-20-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Answer a question directly for once. Why would anyone offer 10-1 on a horse that will be a prohibitive favorite? It makes no sense.

I'll give you 3 infact.

1. Someone that thinks she will be a complete bust on dirt
2. Someone that thinks she has been the luckiest horse on earth
3. Someone that thinks she has beaten absolutely no one

Let me assume your follow up question, just because she is the favorite it means diddly squat, may I remind you of Dollar Bill in the Derby 6-1? So what does that mean, unless you do rate Zenyatta a little higher than you are letting on?

hockey2315 · #**216** 10-20-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I'll give you 3 infact.

1. Someone that thinks she will be a complete bust on dirt
2. Someone that thinks she has been the luckiest horse on earth
3. Someone that thinks she has beaten absolutely no one

Let me assume your follow up question, just because she is the favorite it means diddly squat, may I remind you of Dollar Bill in the Derby 6-1? So what does that mean, unless you do rate Zenyatta a little higher than you are letting on?

Even if you hated Zenyatta, why offer higher odds than you would have to to get action? People aren't offering 10-1 on even money shots on Betfair, they're offering 3/2 or 2-1.

Dahoss · #**217** 10-20-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I'll give you 3 infact.

1. Someone that thinks she will be a complete bust on dirt
2. Someone that thinks she has been the luckiest horse on earth
3. Someone that thinks she has beaten absolutely no one

Let me assume your follow up question, just because she is the favorite it means diddly squat, may I remind you of Dollar Bill in the Derby 6-1? So what does that mean, unless you do rate Zenyatta a little higher than you are letting on?

You find someone offering her at 10-1 and I'll show you a sucker. Plain and simple.

I think she's going to be off the board, but I know enough not to offer up 10-1 on a horse that is going to be 2-1 or less. Only in the land of Zenyatta does that make sense.

CSC · #**218** 10-20-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In your opinion she is special. That is the crux of the problem. They had plenty of opportunities to define her greatness yet here we are after 19 races still debating her merits. Take any great horse and go back to the weeks before their last race. Name one horse whose credentials would be questioned as much as this filly's?

Some would say Ghostzapper was special, he raced what 11 times in a 3 plus year career? Look I don't know what makes some horses great for some and some not so much for others. I certainly get why most think Rachel Alexandra was a great, I may not agree, but I do understand why so many gravitated to her.

CSC · #**219** 10-20-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Even if you hated Zenyatta, why offer higher odds than you would have to to get action? People aren't offering 10-1 on even money shots on Betfair, they're offering 3/2 or 2-1.

This is not straight fwd win bet, I think I articulated the conditions pretty clearly.

Indian Charlie · #**220** 10-20-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC1985

Y The term Zenyattaturd is such a generalization that I really don't know what it means anymore.

You don't understand what it means because you just made that up.

The correct term is Zenyattard. Notice it's a blending of Zenyatta and tard. As in re-tard.

You simply added the word turd to Zenyatta.

What Zenyattard means is, well, it's a good descriptive of the kool aid drinking retarded fans of Zenyatta who have lost all ability for rational thought when it comes to their queen.