Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[joeydb]

It should not be controversial to state that the government should not spend more than it takes in. Period.

Everyone has to get a grip. The debt is too high, and if you live above your means today, you will need to live below your means tomorrow. Math, not political alignment, is the sole important factor in this "debate". It's a math problem. Get the spending to a level less than the revenue coming in, and use the amount (revenue - spending) to pay down the debt.

That is the ONLY course of action. There is no such thing as an entitlement. You're not entitled to anything. If you owned stock in a company having negative value, you own part of the debt, and will reap no profit. This absurd situation has been going on for 80 years, since the 1930's and the ridiculous notion of Social Security. It is well past time for all this lunacy to end, before the dollar itself dies. Then your shares in the U.S. will truly be worthless.

[Riot]

Again you just continue to bash the Republicans for everything they do, but still have not offered the "Riot Budget Plan Solution".

The Republicans have indeed deserved alot of bashing lately And Scott Walker, in his first two months in office, has already proven himself a liar, and seems about as incompetent a Gov. as we've ever seen. Yes, there is plenty to bitch about regarding his attack on collective bargaining.

This thread isn't about the Wisconsin budget, it's about Scott Walkers union busting.

Walker isn't doing very well. Already a restraining order for violating state law regarding access to the capital. Already lawsuit regarding collective bargaining violations from the union. Two serious recall efforts in the works. Today the Democratic Committee of Wisconsin announced that they are initiating recall of the Governor and every Republican that voted for this bill. That goes with the other recall being initiated separately by the state union orgs.

But what would I have done? Well, as opposed to Walker, I can add. So the first thing is I would have done would be not to take the $132 million surplus in this budget year, and give away $140 million in unfunded tax breaks to corporations, immediately increasing my deficit within my first month in office. Walker did that - I wouldn't spend money I didn't have.

Wisconsin has no great sudden budget emergency. That's a lie. The past governor dealt with a 5-plus billion deficit and left Walker a small surplus. The current deficit is 3.6 billion over 4 years. I would address the appalling fact that since 1981, corporate income tax gifts have been so great, 2/3 of Wisconsin companies now don't pay any tax at all. Zero.

How's that "economic development plan" of cutting corporate taxes working for the state? If cutting corporate taxes works to attract, create and grow business, why have there not been 20 years of jobs and companies flocking to Wisconsin? Why has the opposite occured? The state should be flush with successful capitalists. Where are they? Why are there no jobs, no industry, no money, under Reagonomics as applied to the state?

There is a 3.6 billion deficit, and a billion a year can be made up very nicely by having every company who currently does NOT pay tax, pay a small share.

Walker's budget is a complete disaster that is going to ruin Wisconsin. It tears schooling and education apart: AP programs gone. Science, math, arts gone. Teachers gone. But it not only orders individual towns to spend less on each student whether they want to or not, it additionally is prevents towns from raising local taxes, even if they want to, to make their schools better.

Yes, it PREVENTS towns from increasing education spending in their own town, which is a big state government takeover of home rule. So there will probably be yet another lawsuit there. It gives even more tax breaks to corporations. It's shockingly unbelievable.

Your turn Wiphan: post your budget plan right here.

[Riot]

TAXES
— Does not include any state sales or income tax increases and would limit schools and local governments on how much they could raise property taxes.

Which is big state government takeover dictating how individual towns with home rule can run their own towns. That means that even if every citizen in a town votes to want to raise taxes to increase the quality of schooling, or fund a fire station, or buy a snowplow, Walker has prevented them from doing it. Probably not legal, and towns are already talking about suing the state.

— [b]Creates a 100 percent exclusion from capital gains taxes for those who invest in Wisconsin-based businesses and hold those investments for at least five years.

2/3 of Wisconsin corporations already pay zero in taxes. Nice to see Walker is giving away more state income in the face of a deficit. Not smart.

MEDICAID
— Cuts $500 million from Medicaid through a variety of reforms including increasing co-pays and deductibles, but not by reducing benefits across the board or cutting provider reimbursement rates.

Making poor people who cannot afford it pay more for health care. Brilliant! Google: "Arizona death panel transplants"

Takes away current legislative branch control over medicaid, and puts it in the sole care and control of the Governor's office: Walker is solely responsible for who qualifies and what their benefits will be.

— Cuts aid to schools by about $900 million and also reduces how much schools can collect from property taxes per student.

Who in their right mind can think that an 8% decrease in school funding is good? Eliminate all the extra classes, advanced classes, etc. And that towns that do NOT want to decrease the number of teachers, or lose programs, or lose school funding, are not allowed by the governor to do that, in their own towns! This is simply beyond crazy.

Well, no - it's a deliberate effort to put the schools into such a disastrous mess, that Walker can push for privatization.

[Riot]

It should not be controversial to state that the government should not spend more than it takes in. Period.

Tell that to Gov. Scott Walker. He had $136 million in this year's budget, but first thing he did once elected was to give out $140 million in unfunded tax cuts to corporations.

Now he's bitching he's broke and teachers have to pay for it.

Yeah this thread still sucks.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

yeah...it was. You didnt answer a lick of his question, or give a solution..

This thread wasn't about solutions to the Wisconsin budget. It was - and still is - about Walkers union busting.

You want to change the subject to the Wisconsin budget? Okay, where's yours? Post your Wisconsin budget solutions right here, Timmi

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

The Republicans have indeed deserved alot of bashing lately And Scott Walker, in his first two months in office, has already proven himself a liar, and seems about as incompetent a Gov. as we've ever seen. Yes, there is plenty to bitch about regarding his attack on collective bargaining.

Walker isn't doing very well. Already a restraining order for violating state law regarding access to the capital. Already lawsuit regarding collective bargaining violations from the union. Two serious recall efforts in the works. Today the Democratic Committee of Wisconsin announced that they are initiating recall of the Governor and every Republican that voted for this bill. That goes with the other recall being initiated separately by the state union orgs.

But what would I have done? Well, as opposed to Walker, I can add. So the first thing is I would have done would be not to take the $132 million surplus in this budget year, and give away $140 in unfunded tax breaks to corporations, immediately increasing my deficit within my first month in office. Walker did that - I wouldn't.

Wisconsin has no great sudden budget emergency. That's a lie. The past governor dealt with a 5-plus billion deficit and left Walker a small surplus. The current deficit is 3.6 billion over 4 years. I would address the appalling fact that since 1981, corporate income tax gifts have been so great, 2/3 of Wisconsin companies now don't pay any tax at all. Zero. How's that "economic development" of cutting taxes working for the state? There is a 3.6 billion deficit, and a billion a year can be made up very nicely by having every company who currently does NOT pay tax, pay a small share.

Walker's budget is a complete disaster that is going to ruin Wisconsin. It tears schooling and education apart: AP programs gone. Science, math, arts gone. Teachers gone. But it not only orders individual towns to spend less on each student whether they want to or not, it additionally is prevents towns from raising local taxes, even if they want to, to make their schools better. Yes, it PREVENTS towns from increasing education spending, which is a big state government takeover of home rule. So there will probably be yet another lawsuit there. It gives even more tax breaks to corporations. It's shockingly unbelievable.

Your turn Wiphan: post your budget plan right here.

First off, Scott Walker is not a liar. He campaigned on this, he did this as Milwaukee County Executive and he promised to do this as a governor which is why he crushed Tom Barrett in the election. The majority of people in our state believe in Scott Walker and believe he is doing the right thing. You view of him is completely inaccurate and fed by the liberal media and misguided polls you read. You may not like Scott Walker or his views but he is a man of his word period. You may think Walker will get recalled, but I will give you 4-1 odds that there will be a recall of a democratic senator before walker is ever recalled.

Second, so your view is to not give tax breaks to corporations to do business in our state. I understand that. It doesn't make sense in your opinion to promote growth thru corporations and employers who spend $ in the state, create jobs, pay property tax, and payroll tax . In your world you would rather see the corporations many who have fled the state already leave instead of providing incentives to stay. You say they pay no taxes, correct? So the corporations do not pay property taxes on the buildings and land they own? They do not pay payroll taxes? The people they employee do not pay income taxes? They do not pay unemployment? I get your point. I just completely disagree with it.

You do not believe that there is a problem so thus your point of view. I get it again I disagree.

I am sure that our schools are going to hell now because of this plan. No child will get a good education, etc. Get real! I have 2 small children, who most likely will attend public schools and I am not worried about this. Why are you? You do not live here and it doesn't affect you. Actually if you just approve the governor's repair bill all of these things will be just as they are today, because of the simple cost cutting measures that the local municipalities would soon have. They could actually shop for health insurance instead of being required to buy it from the teachers union plan. This would save millions of dollars, but since the democrats do not want this to happen yes people will be laid off. That is the democrats choice, not the republicans.

Unlike you I believe Gov Walker's repair and budget are necessary for the state to move ahead and not become California, etc. If you create an environment to do business in everything else will take care of itself.

You also state that part of the legislature is compromise. Is there anything the Obama administration compromised on in 2008-2010? Elections have consequences. If you do not like what is going on vote the other way and encourage others to join you. Acting in childish manners as the democrats have since they do not have their way is not professional or responsible. If the majority of Wisconsinites believe what you think they do then there will be a change in 2014 and then they can choose to enact legislature that they believe in.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

First off, Scott Walker is not a liar. He campaigned on this,

Please quote where Walker campaigned on taking away the collective bargaining rights of public unions? A copy of an interview, a campaign platform?

He's a liar, as he said this was about the deficit, but during his telephone call with "fake Koch" he said it was indeed about union busting. He also lied to his Democratic Senators (see below)

The majority of people in our state believe in Scott Walker and believe he is doing the right thing.

Not according to the three polls I posted. Do you have any different information?

You view of him is completely inaccurate and fed by the liberal media and misguided polls you read.

No, my view is fed by seeing what Scott Walker says and does in Wisconsin, and reading the Wisconsin paper websites.

You may not like Scott Walker or his views but he is a man of his word period.

I've never met him. He seems very pleasant. It's his politics I don't like.

So far I've seen he's not a man of his word: he admitted during the Fake Koch call that yes, he told the Democratic Senators to return and he'd bargain with them, but that was a trick and a lie, they'd take the vote behind their backs. That makes Walker a liar in at least two ways.

You may think Walker will get recalled, but I will give you 4-1 odds that there will be a recall of a democratic senator before walker is ever recalled.

It will be interesting to watch!

Second, so your view is to not give tax breaks to corporations to do business in our state.

No, my view is not to give unpaid for incentives when the state is broke.

It doesn't make sense in your opinion to promote growth thru corporations and employers who spend $ in the state, create jobs, pay property tax, and payroll tax .

But your corporations do not pay corporate taxes. That's a huge funding loss that has increased over the past 30 years.

If the above works so well, how come Wisconsin is broke?

Why do you think it's better to make private citizens, the average middle class person, yourself, pay more to support these corporate tax incentives? You are willing to pay more state taxes, and have less teachers in your kids schools, so corporations can get tax breaks?

In your world you would rather see the corporations many who have fled the state already leave instead of providing incentives to stay.

No. I absolutely believe in incentives. When you have the wherewithal to give them.

You say they pay no taxes, correct? So the corporations do not pay property taxes on the buildings and land they own? They do not pay payroll taxes? The people they employee do not pay income taxes? They do not pay unemployment?

No. I said they pay no corporate taxes. How's that working out for Wisconsin, to not have that revenue?

You do not believe that there is a problem so thus your point of view. I get it again I disagree.

No. I think there is a budget problem in Wisconsin. I don't think it is a eminent disaster requiring the massive layoffs of teachers, and union busting.

I am sure that our schools are going to hell now because of this plan. No child will get a good education, etc. Get real! I have 2 small children, who most likely will attend public schools and I am not worried about this. Why are you? You do not live here and it doesn't affect you.

I worry because I benefit from your educated children. America is falling futher and further behind in the world in education. We suck. Your governor wants to cut 1/10 of your child's teachers, enlarge their classroom size, decrease their advanced placement and special programs, decrease science and math funding, and prevent your town from doing anything about it. I don't like big government takeovers.

Actually if you just approve the governor's repair bill all of these things will be just as they are today, because of the simple cost cutting measures that the local municipalities would soon have.

I see the above statement as pure propaganda unsupported by the facts.

They could actually shop for health insurance instead of being required to buy it from the teachers union plan. This would save millions of dollars, but since the democrats do not want this to happen yes people will be laid off. That is the democrats choice, not the republicans.

Wrong. No layoffs are needed. Layoffs are simply a nasty threat your governor is making, and blaming the Democratic Senators if he does it is just covering his ass.

Unlike you I believe Gov Walker's repair and budget are necessary for the state to move ahead and not become California, etc. If you create an environment to do business in everything else will take care of itself.

Again, how has those very same economic incentives worked out over the past 30 years in your state? Why is the state broke if that works?

Have you seen how Reaganomics and "trickle-down" economics has historically worked in this country? This isn't a new idea, it's an old one, with a proven performance level documented.

You also state that part of the legislature is compromise. Is there anything the Obama administration compromised on in 2008-2010?

Dear god yes. Health care, budget, war .... every single thing that came through the Senate

Elections have consequences. If you do not like what is going on vote the other way and encourage others to join you.

If the recall elections are held next April, we'll see.

Acting in childish manners as the democrats have since they do not have their way is not professional or responsible.

I've very glad the Dems froze the voting on this 144-page rush-attempted bill. Especially as what's in there has nothing to do with budgets or deficits.

Wiphan: do you support Gov. Walker being able to sell or lease your utility companies to anyone he wants, for whatever price he wants, with no legislative oversight? Yes or no?

Do you support Governor Walker taking away the power over Badgercare and medicaid in your state from the legislature, and making himself the only one in charge of determining qualifications and benefits? Yes or no?

Both the above are in that 144-page bill you like so much.

[geeker2]

Re: selling the power plants

Reality is that the Plants the state owns aren't worth much on the open market. They must be upgraded to new emission standards or converted to natural-gas from coal. The co-gen plant at the campuses and prisons need upgrading.

Bottom-line - Sell this crap as quick as possible and as soon as possible to anyone who is willing to buy it. The amount of money the State will have to invest will never be returned. Also these State run facilities are usually very inefficiently run by the State. It should be in the private sector with oversight by the state agencies. If the Koch Brothers are stupid enough to buy them - sell it to them quickly.

Walker maybe smarter than you think....

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Re: selling the power plants

Reality is that the Plants the state owns aren't worth much on the open market. They must be upgraded to new emission standards or converted to natural-gas from coal. The co-gen plant at the campuses and prisons need upgrading.

Bottom-line - Sell this crap as quick as possible and as soon as possible to anyone who is willing to buy it. The amount of money the State will have to invest will never be returned. Also these State run facilities are usually very inefficiently run by the State. It should be in the private sector with oversight by the state agencies. If the Koch Brothers are stupid enough to buy them - sell it to them quickly.

Walker maybe smarter than you think....

None of the above has anything to do with anything. The Legislative branch has control over who buys public property, soliciting bids or not, and for how much. Walker is trying to take that constitutional power away from the Legislative branch and put it with the Executive. Same with his trying to gain sole control over state medicaid/aid. The Legislature is charged by law with budgetary matters for the state, just like for the US Government it is the House.

Budgetary power is NOT a power the President, or the Governor, can simply grab because they want it.

The power plants, whether they need to be sold or not, has nothing to do with a Governor attempting an illegal power grab. The issue isn't "should the power plants be sold or not". The issue is, "To whom does the Wisconsin constitution give power to buy/sell state property?" The answer is NOT "the governor".

BTW: Newly-elected Governor Rick "My company stole billions from Medicare" Scott in Florida apparently sold two state-owned jets. Unfortunately, he didn't have the legal authority to do so. All hell is about to break loose over that down there. In between Legislators from both parties suing him for refusing the federal high-speed rail project the Legislature already approved. The Legislature maintains he didn't have the authority to capricously line-item veto a budget item already previously approved legally by the legislature and the previous governor. Governors cannot be dictators - no matter how much they want to be.

[Riot]

http://forums.abcnews.go.com/n/pfx/f...ics&tid=383140

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker did not campaign for office calling for the destruction of public unions, but a closer look at his past actions shows that he acted rashly toward union workers before, with disastrous and costly results.

In early 2010, when Walker was Milwaukee County Executive, he fired 26 union security guards who worked at the Milwaukee County Courthouse. They were public employees and were represented by a union, but he fired them anyway, in favor of hiring private security guards. The county board opposed Walker’s security-outsourcing move, but he pressed ahead with it anyway, claiming the action was needed due to a budget crisis, to help ameliorate a potential 2010 year-end deficit of around $7 million. After firing the guards, Walker hired private security contractor Wackenhut G4S to provide security services at the Courthouse, as well as two other venues in the county, under a $1.1 million contract.

Walker’s strategy of firing the union security guards to cope with a contrived “budget emergency” went awry. Just last month, on January 10, 2011, an arbitrator ruled that the county did not have a true budget crisis at the time Walker fired the guards, and county officials failed to give the union representing the guards a chance to propose alternative cost-saving measures before laying them off. The arbitrator also said the annual savings Walker claimed the county would realize from privatizing courthouse security was overstated.

The ruling ordered the county to immediately hire back the fired guards, with back pay, and unemployment compensation or wages from any new jobs subtracted. It also guaranteed the fired guards at least 180 days of work — the same amount of time that should have been given to the guards’ union to react to Walker’s plan to privatize.


This means that Walker’s last rash action toward the public’s employees cost the county plenty.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

None of the above has anything to do with anything. The Legislative branch has control over who buys public property, soliciting bids or not, and for how much. Walker is trying to take that constitutional power away from the Legislative branch and put it with the Executive. Same with his trying to gain sole control over state medicaid/aid. The Legislature is charged by law with budgetary matters for the state, just like for the US Government it is the House.

Budgetary power is NOT a power the President, or the Governor, can simply grab because they want it.

The power plants, whether they need to be sold or not, has nothing to do with a Governor attempting an illegal power grab. The issue isn't "should the power plants be sold or not". The issue is, "To whom does the Wisconsin constitution give power to buy/sell state property?" The answer is NOT "the governor".

BTW: Newly-elected Governor Rick "My company stole billions from Medicare" Scott in Florida apparently sold two state-owned jets. Unfortunately, he didn't have the legal authority to do so. All hell is about to break loose over that down there. In between Legislators from both parties suing him for refusing the federal high-speed rail project the Legislature already approved. The Legislature maintains he didn't have the authority to capricously line-item veto a budget item already previously approved legally by the legislature and the previous governor. Governors cannot be dictators - no matter how much they want to be.

Huh?

My point was valid - sell the power plants at all costs no matter who is in power. It is a good business decision and a waste of tax payer dollars not to.

I guess if the people elect their representatives and the representatives vote to change the previous laws - then that's how a democracy works.

If during the next election cycle if people don't like it - they can vote them out.

btw can you site any instances where the President of the US has over stepped his power over other branches of government? I think we all know Obama wouldn't do that - but I am sure Bush did

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Huh?
My point was valid - sell the power plants at all costs no matter who is in power. It is a good business decision and a waste of tax payer dollars not to.

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

That power currently, legally, is the legislature. As all budget items are.

Walker's bill tries to make it his own power, with no supervision. That's a really, really big deal, regarding the state Constitution and state law. It's not something that can be changed on the whim of one governor trying to acquire power. Nor should it be - you can't have a governor who just decides to sell of state assets such as land, buildings, etc at his pleasure. Those constitutional items controlling Wisconsin's government exist to protect the state. To prevent the changing of laws on a whim as you talk about.

For example, today Walker said he wanted the Democratic senators arrested on contempt charges. Thank goodness the Dems are legally protected from the whim of a Governor trying to use the police for his political advantage.

Some laws can indeed be changed on a whim, as the political parties change, but other basic freedoms and laws to protect everyone in the state equally cannot. Thankfully!

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

I don't know what "We" were talking about but "I" was talking about if the Power Plants should be sold or not.....

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Please quote where Walker campaigned on taking away the collective bargaining rights of public unions? A copy of an interview, a campaign platform?

He's a liar, as he said this was about the deficit, but during his telephone call with "fake Koch" he said it was indeed about union busting. He also lied to his Democratic Senators (see below)

He campaigned for budget cuts and to fix the budget. He campaigned to do the opposite of what Jim Doyle did. You can't negotiate with the teachers union without gaining some of the control back to the people. Remember the teachers work for us. If you believe you can check past and recent history. Average time to negotiate a teachers contract 14 months. Recent actions from technical colleges who called emergency meetings and passed extensions prove they really don't want to work with walker

Not according to the three polls I posted. Do you have any different information?

Polls can say anything that you want them to say. It is the matter in which you ask the question and who you target. They hold no value in my opinion
No, my view is fed by seeing what Scott Walker says and does in Wisconsin, and reading the Wisconsin paper websites.

You mean the liberal Milwaukee Journal Sentinel or the Wisconsin State Journal or the Capital times. Yeah those are not biased at all:rolleyes:

I've never met him. He seems very pleasant. It's his politics I don't like.

So far I've seen he's not a man of his word: he admitted during the Fake Koch call that yes, he told the Democratic Senators to return and he'd bargain with them, but that was a trick and a lie, they'd take the vote behind their backs. That makes Walker a liar in at least two ways.

Did you listen to the entire call. If you did I feel bad for you because you simply can't hear. BTW- do you negotiate with a kidnapper in a hostage situation? What makes this any different
It will be interesting to watch!

Want to put some $ on it? I said I will give you 4-1 odds.

No, my view is not to give unpaid for incentives when the state is broke.

Your view is to leave things status quo and have the power continue to be with the unions and the democrats that are funded by the unions who keep driving the state farther in debt without any revenues. Businesses create tax revenues. State employees and teachers create no revenue. They are expenses. When times are tough you cut your expenses and do what you can to increase your revenue. It is time government agencies start acting like a business.
But your corporations do not pay corporate taxes. That's a huge funding loss that has increased over the past 30 years.

If the above works so well, how come Wisconsin is broke?

Because we have not been business friendly for years and because govenor Doyle stole money from many different funds for government entitlement programs and refused to deal with the problemsWhy do you think it's better to make private citizens, the average middle class person, yourself, pay more to support these corporate tax incentives? You are willing to pay more state taxes, and have less teachers in your kids schools, so corporations can get tax breaks?

No because in the long run if you create a good business climate, unemployment improves, state income and property tax revenue increases and everything works



No. I think there is a budget problem in Wisconsin. I don't think it is a eminent disaster requiring the massive layoffs of teachers, and union busting.

$3.6 billion is not a major issue
Unlike most politicians Walker is taking the problem that will occur in the future and addressing it now. I know this is a little progressive thinking for most people but it is absolutely the right thing to do. The american way of life is why do today what you can put off until tomorrow. Time to change that!

I worry because I benefit from your educated children. America is falling futher and further behind in the world in education. We suck. Your governor wants to cut 1/10 of your child's teachers, enlarge their classroom size, decrease their advanced placement and special programs, decrease science and math funding, and prevent your town from doing anything about it. I don't like big government takeovers.

Well if we didn't protect bad teachers by being fired this may not be the case. Once you are in the system for a certain period of time you can not be fired unless you commit a felony and even then the union would still fight for you to keep your job
Wrong. No layoffs are needed. Layoffs are simply a nasty threat your governor is making, and blaming the Democratic Senators if he does it is just covering his ass.

Really?

If the recall elections are held next April, we'll see.

Again want to wager?
I've very glad the Dems froze the voting on this 144-page rush-attempted bill. Especially as what's in there has nothing to do with budgets or deficits.

So you support the democrats actions whereas I think what they are doing is an injustice to the democratic process and the constituents that they represent. Just a differing point of view. Pretty soon "Dog the Bounty Hunter" is going to be going after them. There is no way it can end well for them.
Wiphan: do you support Gov. Walker being able to sell or lease your utility companies to anyone he wants, for whatever price he wants, with no legislative oversight? Yes or no?

The government does not own a single utility company in WI. I actually own part of Madison Gas and Electric. It is a publicly traded company. Look under the symbol MGEE in the stock exchange. Wisconsin Energy Company (WE energies) is traded under the symbol WEC

see above for my responses

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

That power currently, legally, is the legislature. As all budget items are.

Walker's bill tries to make it his own power, with no supervision. That's a really, really big deal, regarding the state Constitution and state law. It's not something that can be changed on the whim of one governor trying to acquire power. Nor should it be - you can't have a governor who just decides to sell of state assets such as land, buildings, etc at his pleasure. Those constitutional items controlling Wisconsin's government exist to protect the state. To prevent the changing of laws on a whim as you talk about.

For example, today Walker said he wanted the Democratic senators arrested on contempt charges. Thank goodness the Dems are legally protected from the whim of a Governor trying to use the police for his political advantage.

Some laws can indeed be changed on a whim, as the political parties change, but other basic freedoms and laws to protect everyone in the state equally cannot. Thankfully!

This is straight from the bill:
Currently, this state owns and operates numerous heating, cooling, and power
plants that were constructed by the state to provide heating, cooling, and power to
state facilities. The Department of Administration (DOA) determines the method of
operation of these plants and may delegate this authority to any other state agency
that has managing authority for a plant. This bill permits DOA to sell or contract
for the operation of any such plant. The bill exempts such sales and contracts from
the requirement for approval of the Public Service Commission (PSC) that may
otherwise apply under current law. The bill provides that the net proceeds of any
sale, after retirement of any outstanding state debt and any necessary repayment of
federal financial assistance, is deposited in the budget stabilization fund. The bill
also allows DOA, at any time, to petition the PSC to regulate as a public utility any
person who purchases or contracts for the operation of any plant under the bill.
Under current law, the PSC has regulatory authority over public utilities, including
the authority to set rates for utility service.

Let's be real does Walker really have the power to do anything he wants with the power plants? or are there other departments etc that are involved. Please read the bill

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by joeydb

It should not be controversial to state that the government should not spend more than it takes in. Period.

Everyone has to get a grip. The debt is too high, and if you live above your means today, you will need to live below your means tomorrow. Math, not political alignment, is the sole important factor in this "debate". It's a math problem. Get the spending to a level less than the revenue coming in, and use the amount (revenue - spending) to pay down the debt.

That is the ONLY course of action. There is no such thing as an entitlement. You're not entitled to anything. If you owned stock in a company having negative value, you own part of the debt, and will reap no profit. This absurd situation has been going on for 80 years, since the 1930's and the ridiculous notion of Social Security. It is well past time for all this lunacy to end, before the dollar itself dies. Then your shares in the U.S. will truly be worthless.

[Riot]

[quote]

Originally Posted by wiphan

This is straight from the bill:

That is not bill (legal) language. Can you give the reference where you copied it from? I doubt that is indeed "straight from the bill". It sounds like an explaination, and could be explaination within the bill. It also sounds like a direct copy of what was proposed and not approved in 2007.

Who is in charge of the Department of Administration?

[Riot]

He campaigned for budget cuts and to fix the budget.

That's right. Walker never campaigned on busting unions.

Polls can say anything that you want them to say. ... They hold no value in my opinion

No. Some polls are very well done, and highly accurate. Others are not. One can't simply dismiss three polls, well done, that don't show what you'd like them to.

Did you listen to the entire call. If you did I feel bad for you because you simply can't hear.

It appears to be you that can't hear. Yes, I did, and yes, Walker is a liar. He clearly lied to the Democratic Senators. He is clearly saying he wanted the Dems to come back and he'd tell them he'd negotiate with them, but as soon as they came back they could gavel the session and even if they left, the session would still count and they could vote. He wanted to trick them.

Want to put some $ on it? I said I will give you 4-1 odds.

There's no point in that. Formal recall procedures (collection of signatures) have already begun against Walker and the Republican Senators eligible for recall (it varies, depending upon when they were elected, Walker's signature collection has to wait but people are committing to it, the websites are up and running collecting names and addresses of Wisconsinites, on Facebook, etc). There are a couple websites trying to start that up against the Dems, too.

We'll see what happpens, and who gets there first.

Your view is to leave things status quo and have the power continue to be with the unions and the democrats that are funded by the unions who keep driving the state farther in debt without any revenues.

No. I said I believed giving tax incentives, but not when you don't have the money to do so. How you got to the above out of there is crazy.

Businesses create tax revenues.

Yes, they do! Except in Wisconsin, where 2/3 of your businesses pay no corporate profit tax revenue.

State employees and teachers create no revenue. They are expenses.
When times are tough you cut your expenses and do what you can to increase your revenue.

But your Governor absolutely refuses to raise revenue = raise taxes. In fact, he just lowered your revenue by giving unfunded tax cuts. What in hell is he thinking!?

It is time government agencies start acting like a business.

Looks like Walker needs to go to business school, and take Economics 101.

No because in the long run if you create a good business climate, unemployment improves, state income and property tax revenue increases and everything works

That's right. But it has been proven over and over, in the past 60 years of our economy, that giving massive tax cuts to business does not work to do that. That's called "trickle down economics".

For example, the federal government. The Republican budget proposal, which does exactly that, if enacted, has been calculated to loose 700,000 jobs and decrease our gross domestic product by 2%, threatening the return of the recession.

Unlike most politicians Walker is taking the problem that will occur in the future and addressing it now.

Naw. He's just union busting. Bust the unions, bust the three major Democratic campaign contributors (the other 7 top ten national campaign contributors are Republican)

The Koch Brothers are billionaire businessmen who fund the Republican Governors Association (RGA), Americans for Prosperity, and one of the Tea Party organizations (they paid to bus counterprotesters to Wisconsin that second weekend)

It came out of this years RGA that a goal was to union bust. Why do you think all these Republican governors are doing it at the same time? The people that pay for their elections have told them to.

Well if we didn't protect bad teachers by being fired this may not be the case.

Wisconsin teachers are 28th in pay nationally, but 1st in getting high school kids to graduate college. You have a good bunch. You don't need to union bust to be able to fire bad teachers. You need to change the rules.

[Riot]

Here's the transcript of Governor Walker talking to the prank caller, who Walker believes is his main campaign contributor ($43,000, the max possible legally) billionaire businessman David Koch.

I've highlighted where Walker says he'll lie to the Democrats, saying he'll tell them come back and he'll negotiate with them, but then he won't really, and they'll hold the vote.

In fact, the day this transcript/call came out, is the day the Democratic Senators publicly said they now would not return - they had been talking to Walker, and this call showed them Walker was lying to them.

You can read at the bottom where Walker talks casually about doing things that will be ethics violations if done: saying he'll accept a trip and being treated well (illegal to accept from a campaign contributor ) and talking about "getting the message out" (illegal to accept ads, etc. from a campaign contributor).

You can also read where he is threatening layoffs of state employees just to scare the Democratic Senators to come home. How he's stopped their automatic deposits of their paychecks.

(Walker has done additional stuff to the Dems since then, cutting off their staff from copy machines and normal payroll procedures, fining the Dem Senators $100 a day, etc)

And Walker also admits it's not about the budget, it's about union-busting, trying to break up the opposing political party financial donators.

Then, there's the part where Walker considered starting violence in the crowd (sending in agent provocateurs) and decided not to do it, not because he would endanger or hurt his citizens (women and children were at the protests) but because it might be bad politically for him. (this part infuriated the police chief, who is charged with public safety)

Walker: Hi; this is Scott Walker.

Murphy: Scott! David Koch. How are you?

Walker: Hey, David! I’m good. And yourself?

Murphy: I’m very well. I’m a little disheartened by the situation there, but, uh, what’s the latest?

Walker: Well, we’re actually hanging pretty tough. I mean-you know, amazingly there’s a much smaller group of protesters-almost all of whom are in from other states today. The State Assembly is taking the bill up-getting it all the way to the last point it can be at where it’s unamendable. But they’re waiting to pass it until the Senate’s in-the Senate Democrats, excuse me, the assembly Democrats have about a hundred amendments they’re going through. The state Senate still has the 14 members missing but what they’re doing today is bringing up all sorts of other non-fiscal items, many of which are things that members in the Democratic side care about. And each day we’re going to ratchet it up a little bit. The Senate majority leader had a great plan he told about this morning-he told the Senate Democrats about — and he’s going to announce it later today, and that is: The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day, in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk-it’s a little procedural thing here, but-can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted-

Murphy: Beautiful.

Walker: -into your checking account and instead-you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them-which we just loved-to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.

Murphy: Now you’re not talking to any of these Democrat bastards, are you?

Walker: Ah, I-there’s one guy that’s actually voted with me on a bunch of things I called on Saturday for about 45 minutes, uh, mainly to tell him that while I appreciate his friendship and he’s worked with us on other things, to tell him, well, I wasn’t going to budge.

Murphy: Goddamn right!

Walker: Mainly, because I thought he’s about the only reasonable one over there and I figured if I talked to him, he’d go back to the rest of the gang and say, you know, ‘I’ve known Walker for 20 years, he’s not budging.’

Murphy: Now, what’s his name again?

Walker: His name is Tim Cullen.

Murphy: All right, I’ll have to give that man a call.

Walker: Well, actually, in his case I wouldn’t call him and I’ll tell you why: He’s pretty reasonable but he’s not one of us, um, so I would let him be. I think he is in a position where he can maybe motivate that caucus, but he’s not a, he’s not an ally, he’s just a, he’s just a guy. He was in the Senate years ago. He was actually the Senate (word missing) here back in the ’80s and Tommy Thompson hired him to be the head of Health and Human Services. He went into the private sector, made real money and, uh, became a little more more open-minded.

Murphy: Ha!

Walker: And last fall, he got elected to the Senate seat he was in 25 years ago. He’s kind of one of these guys who, he really doesn’t care, he’s not there for political reasons, he’s just trying to get something done. So he’s good to reach out to for me, but he’s not a, he’s not a conservative. He’s just a pragmatist.

Murphy: Now who could we get to budge on this, uh, collective bargaining?

Walker: Well, I think in the end, a couple of things are one, if the, uh, if the — I think the paycheck will have an impact. Secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next, we’ll probably announce in the next day or two, we’ve been working with our Republican leaders in the Legislature is, we may, we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state, we think there’s at minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.

Murphy: Well, they’re probably putting hobos in suits.

Walker: Yeah.

Murphy: That’s what we do. Sometimes.

Walker: Well, I mean paying for the senators to be put up. I know they’re paying for these guy to be-I mean, people can pay for protesters to come in and that’s not an ethics code, but, I mean, literally if the unions are paying the 14 senators-if they’re paying for their food, their lodging, anything like that, uh, we believe at minimum it’s an ethics code violation and it may very well be a felony misconduct in office because, see, technically, it’s not just a political contribution it is, if they’re being paid to keep them from doing their job, we think that’s an, uh, legally an obstruction, not an obstruction of justice, but an obstruction of their ability to do their job. And we still’ve got, the attorney general’s office is looking into it for us. So we’re trying about four or five different angles, so each day we crank up a little bit more pressure. The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready. We put out the at-risk notices. We’ll announce Thursday, and they’ll go out early next week. And we’ll probably get 5 to 6,000 state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit, you know.

Murphy: Beautiful, beautiful. Gotta crush that union.

Walker: Well it’s one of those where, in the end, you know, the, the uh, and I’ve had not only Cullen, and I’ve talked to him myself, I’ve had three or four of my other business-leader friends who know him over the years, and just kind of pass the message on to these guys, if they think I’m caving, they’ve been asleep for the last eight years ’cause I’ve taken on every major battle in Milwaukee County and won, even in a county where I’m overwhelmingly overpowered politically, and, ’cause I don’t budge.

Murphy: Goddamn right!

Walker: If you’re doing the right thing, you stay firm and, in this case, you know, we say we’ll wait it out. If they want to start sacrificing thousands of public workers who’ll be laid off, sooner or later there’s gonna be pressure on these senators to come back. We’re not compromising, we’re not gonna —

Murphy: Beautiful.

Walker: The other thing we may do, ’cause the senator I mentioned thinks that these guys — you’ve got a few of the radical ones, who, unfortunately, one of them is the minority leader, but most of the rest of them are just looking for a way to get out of this. They’re scared out of their mind, they don’t know what it means. There’s a bunch of recalls up against them. They’d really like to just get back here and get it over with. So the paycheck thing, some of the other things threaten them. I think, collectively, there’s enough going on and as long as they don’t think I’m gonna cave — which, again, we have no interest in — an interesting idea that was brought up to me this morning by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democrat leader that I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders — talk, not negotiate — and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn — but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them come back and sit down in the state Assembly. They can recess it, to come back if we’re talking, but they all have to be back there. The reason for that is, we’re verifying it this afternoon, but legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have a quorum because they started out that way. Um, so we’re double checking that. But that would be the only, if you heard that I was going to talk to them, that would be the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capital with all 14 of them. And my sense is, hell, I’ll talk to them. If they want to yell at me for an hour, you know, I’m used to that, I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.

Murphy: Bring a baseball bat. That’s what I’d do.

Walker: I have one in my office; you’d be happy with that. I got a Slugger with my name on it.

Murphy: Beautiful.

Walker: But in the end, this is, and this is, I even pointed it out last night ’cause I’m trying to keep out the, as many of the private unions as possible, I said this is about the budget, this is about public-sector unions. Hell, even FDR got it. Um, there’s no place for the kind of, uh, I mean, essentially you’re having taxpayer money be used to pay to lobby for spending more taxpayers’ money. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Murphy: Beautiful.

Walker: So it’s, uh, this is ground zero, there’s no doubt about it. But, uh, I think, you know, for us, I just keep telling, I call, I tell the speaker, the senate majority leader every night, give me a list of the people I need to call at home, to shore ’em up. The New York Times, of all things, I don’t normally tell people to read the New York Times, but the front page of the New York Times has got a great story, one of these unbelievable moments of true journalism, what is supposed to be objective journalism. They got out of the capital and went down one county south of the capital to Janesville, to Rock County, that’s where the General Motors plant once was.

Murphy: Right, right.

Walker: They moved out two years ago. The lead on this story is about a guy who was laid off two years ago, uh, he’s been laid off twice by GM, who points out that, uh, everybody else in his town has had to sacrifice except for all these public employees and it’s about damn time they do, and he supports me. Um, and they had a bartender, they had, I mean, every stereotypical blue-collar worker type they interviewed, and the only ones that weren’t with us were people who were either a public employee or married to a public employee. It’s an unbelievable story. So I went through and called all these uh, a handful, a dozen or so lawmakers I worry about each day and said, “Everyone, we should get that story printed out and send it to anyone giving you grief.”

Murphy: Goddamn right! We, uh, we sent, uh, Andrew Breitbart down there.

Walker: Yeah.

Murphy: Yeah.

Walker: Good stuff.

Murphy: He’s our man, you know.

Walker: Well, it has been amazing to me the massive amount of attention I, I’ve don all, I want to stay ahead of this every day, tonight I’m actually doing a fireside chat, which the state TV stations are picking up and I guess a bunch of the national ones are, too, and, uh, in the last couple of days when I do the TV shows, I’ve been going after Obama because he stuck — although he’s backed off now — but he stuck his nose in here. And I said, you know, he asked me what I thought about it and I said the last time I checked this guy’s got a much bigger budget deficit than we do, maybe he should worry about that [Murphy laughs] and not stick his nose in Wisconsin’s business. But you know, we’ve had, uh, you know, all the national shows, we were on [Sean] Hannity last night, I did “Good Morning America,” the “Today” show and all that sorta stuff. I was on “Morning Joe” this morning. We’ve done Greta [van Susteren]. We’re gonna, you know, keep getting our message out. Mark Levin last night. And I’ve gotta tell you the response from around the country has been phenomenal. I had Brian [Sadoval], the new governor of Nevada, called me the last night he said-he was out in the Lincoln Day Circuit in the last two weekends and he was kidding me, he’s new as well as me, he said, “Scott, don’t come to Nevada because I’d be afraid you beat me running for governor.” That’s all they want to talk about is what are you doing to help the governor of Wisconsin. The next question, you know, I talk to Kasich every day-John’s gotta stand firm in Ohio. I think we could do the same thing with Vic Scott in Florida. I think, uh, [Rick] Snyder-if he got a little more support-probably could do that in Michigan. You start going down the list there’s a lot of us new governors that got elected to do something big.

Murphy: You’re the first domino.

Walker: Yep. This is our moment.

Murphy: Yeah. Now what else could we do for you down there?

Walker: Well the biggest thing would be-and your guy on the ground [Americans for Prosperity president Tim Phillips] is probably seeing this is the, well, two things: One, our members originally got freaked out by all the bodies here, although, I told them an interesting story when I was first elected county executive in Milwaukee of all places, the first budget I put through was pretty bold, aggressive, the union went nuts on me and I got all sorts of grief. But a couple of weeks later I’m in a Veterans Day parade and I’m going down the line and usually unless you’re a veteran or, you know, marching with a veterans group, politicians all get polite applause but nobody gets up. I come down the line, 40-50 people in a row, hands up, thumbs up, you know, cheering, screaming, yelling, ‘Way to go, hang in there, Walker!’ And then after about 40-50 people like that, there’s a guy flipping me off [Murphy laughs]. This goes on, you know, 40-50 [recording cuts out].

Walker: [recording resumes] right thing. The people who know it’s right will cheer you, will applaud you, they’ll run through a wall for you. And the people who don’t like it, they’re gonna flip you off. But stop worrying about, you know, them because — the other day, there were 70,000, probably two-thirds were against the bill, one-third were for, 70,000 people at the Capitol. All week there’s been, you know, 15-30,000 a day. But I remind all our lawmakers, that there’s five and a half million people in this state. And just because a bunch of guys who can jump off of work ’cause of their union rules, doesn’t mean the rest of the people in your district aren’t with them. So one thing, per your question is, the more groups that are encouraging people not just to show up but to call lawmakers and tell them to hang firm with the governor, the better. Because the more they get that reassurance, the easier it is for them to vote yes.

Murphy: Right, right.

Walker: The other thing is more long-term, and that is, after this, um, you know the coming days and weeks and months ahead, particulary in some of these, uh, more swing areas, a lot of these guys are gonna need, they don’t necessarily need ads for them, but they’re gonna need a message out reinforcing why this was a good thing to do for the economy and a good thing to do for the state. So to the extent that that message is out over and over again, that’s obviously a good thing.

Murphy: Right, right. Well, we’ll back you any way we can. But, uh, what we were thinking about the crowds was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.

Walker: You know, the, well, the only problem with that — because we thought about that. The problem — the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this. The teachers union did some polling of focus groups, I think, and found out that the public turned on ’em the minute they closed school down for a couple days. The guys we’ve got left are largely from out of state, and I keep dismissing it in all my press conferences saying, ‘Eh, they’re mostly from out of state.’ My only fear would be is if there was a ruckus caused is that that would scare the public into thinking maybe the governor has gotta settle to avoid all these problems. You know, whereas, I’ve said, ‘Hey, you know, we can handle this, people can protest. This is Madison, you know, full of the ’60s liberals. Let ’em protest.’ It’s not gonna affect us. And as long as we go back to our homes and the majority of the people are telling us we’re doing the right thing, let ’em protest all they want. Um, so that’s my gut reaction, is that I think it’s actually good if they’re constant, they’re noisy, but they’re quiet, nothing happens, ’cause sooner or later the media stops finding ’em interesting.

Murphy: Well, not the liberal bastards on MSNBC.

Walker: Oh, yeah, but who watches that? I went on “Morning Joe” this morning. I like it ’cause I just like being combative with those guys, but, uh. You know they’re off the deep end.

Murphy: Joe-Joe’s a good guy. He’s one of us.

Walker: Yeah, he’s all right. He was fair to me, I mean, the rest of them were out there. Although I had fun. They had [senator Chuck] Schumer over from New York on, ripping me, and then they had a little clip of a state senator hiding out ripping me, and it was almost too easy. I walked in and Joe asked me a question and I say, well, before I answer that, let me just point out the amazing irony, the fact that you’ve got a United States senator from New York, a senator, who, by the way, is part of a team that can’t seem to balance the federal budget, talking about my budget. At least he’s coming into work to talk about something, although it’s mine. And you got one of these 14 state senate Democrats, uh, who can’t even bother to show up and deal with the budget he’s elected to do something about. And, uh, I said that kind of tells you the whole story right there.

Murphy: Beautiful, beautiful. But you gotta love that Mika Brzezinski.

Walker: Oh, yeah.

Murphy: She’s a piece of ass.

Walker: You know, a couple of weeks ago [unclear], I was having dinner with Jim Sensenbrenner when I came in to D.C. for a day to do an event, and we were going over to do the Greta show. I had dinner with congressman Sensenbrenner, and right next to us was the two of them and then their guest was [Obama advisor David] Axelrod. I came over [Murphy laughs], I introduced myself.

Murphy: That son of a bitch!

Walker: Yeah, no kidding, huh? I introduced myself. I said, I figured you probably knew who I was since your boss was in campaigning against me. But, uh, it’s always good to let ’em know you know what’s going on.

Murphy: Well, good, good. Good catching up with ya’.

Walker: Yeah, well, thanks. This is an exciting time. This is — you know, I told my cabinet, I had a dinner the Sunday, or excuse me, the Monday right after the 6th. Came home from the Super Bowl where the Packers won, and that Monday night I had all of my cabinet over to the residence for dinner. Talked about what we were gonna do, how we were gonna do it. We’d already kinda built plans up, but it was kind of the last hurrah before we dropped the bomb. And I stood up and I pulled out a picture of Ronald Reagan, and I said, you know, this may seem a little melodramatic, but 30 years ago, Ronald Reagan, whose 100th birthday we just celebrated the day before, had one of the most defining moments of his political career, not just his presidency, when he fired the air-traffic controllers. And, uh, I said, to me that moment was more important than just for labor relations or even the federal budget, that was the first crack in the Berlin Wall and the fall of Communism because from that point forward, the Soviets and the Communists knew that Ronald Reagan wasn’t a pushover. And, uh, I said this may not have as broad of world implications, but in Wisconsin’s history — little did I know how big it would be nationally — in Wisconsin’s history, I said this is our moment, this is our time to change the course of history. And this is why it’s so important that they were all there. I had a cabinet meeting this morning and I reminded them of that and I said for those of you who thought I was being melodramatic you now know it was purely putting it in the right context.

Murphy: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these bastards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.

Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. Thanks, thanks for all the support and helping us move the cause forward, and we appreciate it. We’re, uh, we’re doing the just and right thing for the right reasons, and it’s all about getting our freedoms back.

Murphy: Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]

Walker: Well, that’s just it. The bottom line is we’re gonna get the world moving here because it’s the right thing to do.

Murphy: All right then.

Walker: Thanks a million!

Murphy: Bye-bye!

Walker: Bye.