My theory and feelings on Polytrack

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Don't worry ya'll. I'll finish even if it is online. I actually am taking two online classes and three traditional classes right now. God, I ought to finish with everything that I've been through and as hard as I have worked for the past couple of years. I also tutor Biology and Chemistry at my college. I'm usually a big supporter of education, but I'm getting tired and am not very focused right now. It's just a spell that I go through every once in a blue moon when my work load seems to be too much. I also desperately miss the horses...

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Oh, it's just a degree that will transfer to a four year University. I'm at a community college right now. The two degrees that I am working on right now are actually Associate in Science and Associate in Arts degrees.

I have those too... but they aren't transfer degrees. LOL

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I graduate in May with two transfer degrees...

However, if the opportunity arose, I would probably take it because it is what I want to do, and I could finish my degrees online. Plus, I'm young and could always go back to school. The way I see, if you want something bad enough, you can usually find a way to make your dreams come true. My dreams lie within the horse racing industry.

I understand where you are coming from but it gets harder to go back to school every day that you are out.
I'm not discouraging you but you'll be in a much better position if you have something to fall back on.
The horse racing industry is a lot different from the inside than it looks from the outside. It's different from any other industry and it's allure has captured many, including myself, but in the end it is a lot of hard work for low wages, poor prospects for advancement, dangerous conditions, and virtually no free time. But if thats what you want, don't let me stop ya.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand where you are coming from but it gets harder to go back to school every day that you are out.
I'm not discouraging you but you'll be in a much better position if you have something to fall back on.
The horse racing industry is a lot different from the inside than it looks from the outside. It's different from any other industry and it's allure has captured many, including myself, but in the end it is a lot of hard work for low wages, poor prospects for advancement, dangerous conditions, and virtually no free time. But if thats what you want, don't let me stop ya.

I've already gone back to school once. I took a year off in between high school and college, and jumped right into college. This is my third year and I still have a 4.0. I graduated high school with a 2.4. I decided that it was time to straighten out my life and buckle down. I think that I could do it again with no problem. It's all in what you put your mind up to doing. Plus, I wouldn't actually quit school. I would just work and finish my degrees online in the evenings. I only have five more classes to take after this semester.

I been riding, taking care of, and training horses all of my life. Yes, the horse industry is very different on the inside than it looks on the outside. I love every minute of it that I spend with the horses even though it is a lot of hard work that the people on the outside don't see. I'm not in the horse racing industry, but I'm in the horse show industry.

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

What about horseshoes? Do you put those on your horse? For some reason, they haven't evolved to have horseshoes in their natural environment, but we use those.

What about Lasix and other similar drugs? Somehow they haven't evolved to handle the stress of racing we put them under...but (a) we still race them in a manner "foreign" to what they would otherwise encounter in nature and (b) drug them so they can handle it and even perform better...

How far are you willing to take your logic? Is Ned Ludd in your bloodline?


It seems to me that the people who are as strongly against poly have a very strong financial interest in its demise as the track owners installing it..."its impossible to handicap" (ie I can't win money on it)..."changes breeding" (ie my "proven" bloodline horse(s) will be worth less)...too hard to figure out how to train for it (ie I am not gonna make money with my horse on it). But those installing it are the evil ones all in it for the money...

Until or unless everyone gets real, cool off, and are willing to be rational and intellectually honest about this topic, wtf is the point. It all turns into a great big internet pissing match and/or conspriacy theory discussion that would make the president of the John Birch Society blush.

A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses - so that isn't the best analogy to use with me because I agree..

B) I wouldn't be mad if Lasix were banned and no one could use it....I wish our game was more about horsemenship than meds, but its not....and the reason its not is because of stupid movements like the one we're talking about right now....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I've already gone back to school once. I took a year off in between high school and college, and jumped right into college. This is my third year and I still have a 4.0. I graduated high school with a 2.4. I decided that it was time to straighten out my life and buckle down. I think that I could do it again with no problem. It's all in what you put your mind up to doing. Plus, I wouldn't actually quit school. I would just work and finish my degrees online in the evenings. I only have five more classes to take after this semester.

I been riding, taking care of, and training horses all of my life. Yes, the horse industry is very different on the inside than it looks on the outside. I love every minute of it that I spend with the horses even though it is a lot of hard work that the people on the outside don't see. I'm not in the horse racing industry, but I'm in the horse show industry.

The problem with the horse racing business isn't the horses, its the people!! If it weren't for the horses....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses

Hurt their health ?

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem with the horse racing business isn't the horses, its the people!! If it weren't for the horses....

Yeah, they'll rip you off in a heart beat, and I know that some of them are downright mean...

Some are like this on this end of the horse industry too...

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yeah, they'll rip you off in a heart beat, and I know that some of them are downright mean...

Some are like this on this end of the horse industry too...

Amen to that...

And it's a small world in the horse business too.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses - so that isn't the best analogy to use with me because I agree..

B) I wouldn't be mad if Lasix were banned and no one could use it....I wish our game was more about horsemenship than meds, but its not....and the reason its not is because of stupid movements like the one we're talking about right now....

I agree completely... some people will just never get it.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hurt their health ?

I know MANY horsemen and vets who believe that a combination of bad blacksmiths and the toe grabs on the hosre shoes are a HUGE factor to the unsoundness of their horses...

As a matter of fact, ONE OF THE TOP TRAINERS IN THE COUNTRY files off the toe grabs on ALL of his barn's shoes...all of them....so its like they're not even wearing shoes.....I can't say who because of the obvious risk with owners...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

[quote=Cunningham Racing]A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses - so that isn't the best analogy to use with me because I agree..
QUOTE]

Ah, now we're talking sense. Yes, they make them prone to sore soles later on because going barefoot toughens their soles. Plus, you have to worry about farriers quicking your horse, loose shoes, shoes coming off (which can badly damage their hoof wall), and farriers doing a bad job that inevitably throws your horse off-balance possibly creating soundness issues.

Of course, shoes definitely serve their purpose though in helping diseases such as laminitis and navicular. Also, corrective shoeing helps horses with faulty conformation or bad movement. However, like in the case of my horse, shoes may have been his demise. He has sore soles probably due to shoeing (I can't train him or show him at some of those big horse complexes with paved roads and gravel driveways around the stable). Now, I have to get $100 padded shoes put on him every five weeks. We tried going barefoot and putting him on jello and other supplements and Freezex to toughen up his feet for months, but it didn't work. Our last resort was padded gel shoes. He's actually as sound as can be now.

[Cajungator26]

[quote=kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A) I am one who believes that horse shoes hurt horses and their health more than they help horses - so that isn't the best analogy to use with me because I agree..
QUOTE]

Ah, now we're talking sense. Yes, they make them prone to sore soles later on because going barefoot toughens their soles. Plus, you have to worry about farriers quicking your horse, loose shoes, shoes coming off (which can badly damage their hoof wall), and farriers doing a bad job that inevitably throws your horse off-balance possibly creating soundness issues.

Unfortunately, we ask so much out of performance horses that their soles literally can't handle the kind of pressure they're putting on them. This causes us to HAVE to use at least front shoes. I tried numerous times to go without shoes on our horses, but a few of them just couldn't handle the jumping without the front shoes at least. It's a tough call...

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem with the horse racing business isn't the horses, its the people!! If it weren't for the horses....

I am not in the business. I know some who are. I have been around the stench. Not the horse poop. I would agree with the above. This business attracts some very unsavory characters. Very. I would make sure I had plenty of places to fall back on first. And an education coupled with integrity, can get you out of some tough situations. From what I have seen I would say it would be very tough on females especially. Down here anyway. There are a lot of girls that love horses that have been severely disappointed going this route. I wish they could/would post on their experiences.

Nah. You wont find them on this site.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I know MANY horsemen and vets who believe that a combination of bad blacksmiths and the toe grabs on the hosre shoes are a HUGE factor to the unsoundness of their horses...

As a matter of fact, ONE OF THE TOP TRAINERS IN THE COUNTRY files off the toe grabs on ALL of his barn's shoes...all of them....so its like they're not even wearing shoes.....I can't say who because of the obvious risk with owners...

I would agree that a bad blacksmith and toe grabs (on front feet) can be a problem but you said shoes.
As for the "top horseman" who files all the toe grabs off...why not just shoe without toe grabs and save the poor farrier all that extra work?

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

OK...but do you use either on your horses? I mean, if you really want what is closest to "nature" for horses, what do you do with yours?


Don't get me wrong, I understand the horsemanship and tradition concerns about polytrack. I appreciate that more than I have made clear on these forums.

Nevertheless, there is much more to the anti-polytrack hysterics than "Tradition!" and "Bring back horsemanship!" The fact of the matter is, and at least you have been honest enough to admit it, that it has a lot to do with money for the anti-polytrack crowd, too...which is incredibly ironic as that is one of the main attacks used on track owners.

And, FWIW, while I tend to be in favor of poly (or at least open to it), I do appreciate the sentiment that maybe this whole synthetic track phenomenon is moving a little fast...ie, why not see how it pans out at the track that have installed it before we start mandating its installation across the land.

I admit that I allow shoes to be used on ALL of my horses in training, but I also believe in my blacksmith...If I watch my horses go and think that they are shod poorly and they aren't breaking over cleanly and correctly, then I will bring it to my trainers attention AND YES I HAVE DONE IT BEFORE...as a matter of fact, the only thing that I disagree with my trainer on is the shoeing....

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

[quote=Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Unfortunately, we ask so much out of performance horses that their soles literally can't handle the kind of pressure they're putting on them. This causes us to HAVE to use at least front shoes. I tried numerous times to go without shoes on our horses, but a few of them just couldn't handle the jumping without the front shoes at least. It's a tough call...

I added to my post above just to let you know. We usually take the shoes off the horses in the off season and put them back on when we start heavy training again. You almost have to use or do have to use them when you are training them, jumping them, and showing them. Riding horses is just hard on them period.

[Cajungator26]

[quote=kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I added to my post above just to let you know. We usually take the shoes off the horses in the off season and put them back on when we start heavy training again. You almost have to use or do have to use them when you are training them, jumping them, and showing them. Riding horses is just hard on them period.

We did the same thing... it's tough in Florida though because technically there is no off season. LOL I'd want to take them off in the summer, but it rains a lot here and thrush runs rampant. We also see a lot of crumbling soles and hoof walls due to the moisture. Frustrating stuff...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

[quote=Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

We did the same thing... it's tough in Florida though because technically there is no off season. LOL I'd want to take them off in the summer, but it rains a lot here and thrush runs rampant. We also see a lot of crumbling soles and hoof walls due to the moisture. Frustrating stuff...

Yeah, we don't normally show in the winter on the NC and VA circuits because in gets too cold (I hate cold weather!). We actually just went to our last show for the year last weekend, and will pick back up in March. We usually work with the babies, yearlings, and two-year-olds (well I don't anymore because of school) during the winter to prepare them for the spring. The weather usually holds up well enough for this. Plus, we have indoor riding space. I didn't think about horses feet being tough to handle in Florida. Huh, interesting. We don't have those kinds of problems up here unless it rains, and rains, and rains for days (which it does do sometimes).

[Kasept]

Funny that this toe grab issue came up.. Dan Fick of Jockey Club was on the show tonight and one of the topics we covered was the Grayson Foundation call for toe grabs to be eliminated.. Here's Hegarty's piece on it from DRF and a report from Anvils magazine from a few years ago when the California study elaborated on the issue:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15319949/

http://www.horseshoes.com/advice/alkane1/tgrbandi.htm