5/2 (CD): Kentucky Derby (G1)

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Not quite sure what this a reference to, but Dubai Millennium died in the middle of his first breeding season.

As for people talking about sending horses to/from Dubai...no one seems think that getting there is a major hassle considering Well Armed, Curlin, Invasor, Pleasantly Perfect, Cigar, etc etc had no problems shipping THOUSANDS of miles and winning some big prizes.

People want to keep living their own myths about some Dubai "curse" or whatever...go on if you must, but it's not there.

Godolphin horses have tried seven times in the Derby over five different races and have no wins. The same could be said for...say...sending your horses to Todd Pletcher...

It was a book about a horse he owned and the difficulty he faced when the horse died. Since his death he actually has pursued every one of the offspring, bought them and pensioned them out to different farms. It is an approach. Many of the horses you speak of Well Armed, Curlin, Pleasantly Perfect, Cigar were not three yr olds when they went over. Invasor ran there at three, faced his only lose but had shipped there from Uraguay. Indian Blessing recently scratched out of a race as she was a bit dull in her works since coming back from Dubai. It isn't that it can't be done but when you are talking about 3 year olds, it is a very tough process for them. It requires alot of maturity.

[Pedigree Ann]

I've been thinking about the Derby and think I now understand how it happened. Consider the following scenario:

A horse who had previously won races running on/near the front end misses the break, stumbles, or is squeezed back, drops several lengths back behind the next-last horse and you think "well, he's toast." Yet lo and behold, same horse finds a new dimension, and comes roaring down the stretch to win, or just miss. No one knew he had it in him, least of all the rider and trainer. Doesn't happen every day, or every month, but we have all seen it happen.

So yesterday it happened in the Kentucky Derby. Not going to happen again in our lifetime, most likely. Especially not without a patented Calvin Bo-Rail unimpeded passage on the best part of the track. The races that Mine That Bird won to be named champion 2yo in Canada were won by being forwardly placed, within a few lengths of the leader. Nobody could have logically predicted that he was capable of that kind of finishing kick from the next county. And although his pedigree hinted that he would move up on mud, he hadn't had the opportunity to display it. A sort of perfect storm of circumstances.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Interesting.....but, I think she was talking thier appearance and what he said in the winner's circle. I guess they do have something in common! But, Calvin's ride on SWLY at Saratoga was nowhere near as good as his Derby victories....if fact, I think he didn't really gave her a good chance that day.

You got me....I have this terrible bias against cowboy hats!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Interesting.....but, I think she was talking thier appearance and what he said in the winner's circle. I guess they do have something in common! But, Calvin's ride on SWLY at Saratoga was nowhere near as good as his Derby victories....if fact, I think he didn't really gave her a good chance that day.

Which is why I said she had good people instincts.

I wasn't being clear about Borel- I meant that he's one of those people in the game it's easy to root for. (Though clearly I don't let silly sentiments like that factor into my wagers as my win bet was on Desert Party and see how well that worked out!)

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I've been thinking about the Derby and think I now understand how it happened. Consider the following scenario:

A horse who had previously won races running on/near the front end misses the break, stumbles, or is squeezed back, drops several lengths back behind the next-last horse and you think "well, he's toast." Yet lo and behold, same horse finds a new dimension, and comes roaring down the stretch to win, or just miss. No one knew he had it in him, least of all the rider and trainer. Doesn't happen every day, or every month, but we have all seen it happen.

So yesterday it happened in the Kentucky Derby. Not going to happen again in our lifetime, most likely. Especially not without a patented Calvin Bo-Rail unimpeded passage on the best part of the track. The races that Mine That Bird won to be named champion 2yo in Canada were won by being forwardly placed, within a few lengths of the leader. Nobody could have logically predicted that he was capable of that kind of finishing kick from the next county. And although his pedigree hinted that he would move up on mud, he hadn't had the opportunity to display it. A sort of perfect storm of circumstances.

Yep, the old "get a lemon and make lemonade" scenario.

Someone else posted smartly elsewhere around here that Calvin may not have felt as comfortable to be as personally creative had he been riding a more expensive or favored horse for "more established" connections. I essentially concur.

Taking Mine That Bird back so far would have left lots of room for 2nd guessing on a favored horse had he not been successful.

Regardless, now that 30 hours or so have passed I am confident that Borel's ride in the 2009 Kentucky Derby will be one I'll enjoy watching and thinking about in years to come.

[cakes44]

Watch last year's Derby if you don't think Borel would have done that on a more expensive or favored horse for "more established" connections.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Watch last year's Derby if you don't think Borel would have done that on a more expensive or favored horse for "more established" connections.

who did he ride last year?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Danzig

who did he ride last year?

Denis of Cork.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by philcski

Denis of Cork.

ok, thanks. i couldn't remember, and i'm too tired, lazy and cranky to look it up.
so sick of doing other peoples' jobs at work.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

I
Seriously, it is pretty cool that the often dissed here New Mexico's Peppers Pride leaves the all time unbeaten mark at 19 within five months of another New Mexico racing connection winning the Kentucky Derby....easily.

.

The all time unbeaten mark is at least 54, the number of races won by the Hungarian wonderhorse Kincsem. And she was winning Derbies and races that are today European G1s. "All time" includes all of Thoroughbred racing history, not just the last 50 years.

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

The all time unbeaten mark is at least 54, the number of races won by the Hungarian wonderhorse Kincsem. And she was winning Derbies and races that are today European G1s. "All time" includes all of Thoroughbred racing history, not just the last 50 years.

Hungarian? Pfft.

That's (Ga)bor-ing.

[King Glorious]

Just thought it was worth mentioning that Mine that Bird further destroyed two of the supposed myths about the Derby:

-can't win with only two preps.
-can't win if your last start was more than four weeks out.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Just thought it was worth mentioning that Mine that Bird further destroyed two of the supposed myths about the Derby:

-can't win with only two preps.
-can't win if your last start was more than four weeks out.

Hadn't Barbaro, Big Brown and Street Sense done a number on those "myths" as well?

NT

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Hadn't Barbaro, Big Brown and Street Sense done a number on those "myths" as well?

NT

Hence the reason why I said "further" destroyed them, less anyone think that those winners were exceptions to the rules.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Hence the reason why I said "further" destroyed them, less anyone think that those winners were exceptions to the rules.

Then you could have added the "gelding" standard, too!

--Dunbar