The Boss has passed.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is what i said:


While Boston and the mets have more revenues than most everyone else they are still dwarfed by the Yankees. The Red Sox have been competitive because they have not only spent on FA's (though not to the degree of the yankees) but have a superior player development program. Of course having the extra cash to pay draftees over slot and the ability to re-sign its developed players matters too

Again you go off on tangents when it suits your argument. I clearly was refering to the Red Sox current managemnt teasm, namely Epstein who took over in 2003.

And the Red Sox hardly "bought" those championships, especially not the way the Yankees "bought" last years. The 2004 team had 1 mega FA signing on the team, Manny.
Do I have to rehash again?

2004 Red Sox
C- Varitek- acquired via minor league trade
1b-Millar -signed as FA- 2 million a year
2b-Bellhorn- acquired via trade was a player to be named later
SS-Reese - FA- 1 million a year
3b- Mueller - FA- 2.1 million a year
OF-kapler- FA- 750k a year
OF Damon- FA 7.1 million
Of- Manny- FA 22.5 million
others
Youlkilis -drafted
Dave Roberts-via trade
Carbera-via trade

Sp-Pedro-via trade
Sp-Shilling-via trade
Sp-Lowe-via trade
Arroyo- waiver claim
Wakefield- FA 4 million
Foulke -FA 3.5 million

Outside of manny all the other FA's that they "bought" made less combined than Jeter made in one year. Of course this had very little to do with the statement that I made about Epstein and the Red Sox doing a great job with player development which is pretty much standard knowledge.

No Manny , no rings chuck , it's that simple , they don't sign him , the curse is still in tact

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Again, you have your facts wrong. Damon was offered a contract. Boras chose to play chicken and ended up on the wrong end. Damon should blame Boras for not properly assessing the market, not the yanks.

Manny demanded to be traded after being shopped for 5 years after he did nothing but carry the offense to their only two titles since woodrow wilson. yeah, they treated him great. How about pedro? He was only one of the best pitchers in the last quarter century. They treated him really good too. Bronson Aroyo? Not a great pitcher but he did his part. How was he handled? Mike Lowell? Theo should be ashamed of himself.

But that really isn't the point I was making. The yankees are an older team. They are an older CHAMPIONSHIP team. The yanks chose to stay loyal to their core group. How else can you explain Posada's contract? 4 yrs 52 million for a 36 yr old catcher. Anyone with half a brain knows that was a gift. Mo getting 45 million? Yeah, there were a bunch of teams that were going to pay 15 million a year to a 38 year old closer. Jeter got that contract 10 years ago as a reward for winning four series.

If Boston were to keep this group together and they were to win a couple of titles, then their payroll later would be much bigger. No????? The fact is, they havent had the same success. Even so, if history tells us anything, they wouldnt pay those guys anyway. Heck, if history tells us anything, they won't be in any position to have to make those decisions.

So where were the guys they were going to replace those players with?
Please tell me what catchers have been available that can hit like Posada still can? You seriously don't think that Mariano Rivera couldnt get 45 million on the open market 2 years ago??? Brad lidge got 37.5 for 3 years! Brad freakin Lidge! And that was a season removed from him having a 5.28 era.

Only someone who was clueless would infer that the Red Sox did the wrong thing by letting those players go. Yeah It would have been a good move to keep pedro and pay him 50 million and get a single good season out of him. And Millar really lit it up as a 37 year old in the NL. And for your info, lowell is making a lot of money to do nothing. The Red Sox didnt kick him in the hip, he got hurt. Oh poor manny, he was so mistreated in Boston. That 125 million they gave him was soooo wronggg. He pouted because they did not want to give him another long term deal for mega money when he was on the decline. They were 100% right in trading him as he dogged it and faked injuries and after one good 1/2 of a season has gone steadily down hill. Would you want to be paying him 25 million a year for the next 2 years? And yes the red sox owed a great deal of gratitude to Bronson Arroyo and that 24-19 record and 4.19 era over 2 1/2 years. Trading him to a team to the NL was a terrible thing for his career. He has only been able to bank $33 million in 5 years in Cincy as a mediocre pitcher.

And the yankees didnt re-sign Damon or matsui because they wanted them to leave. Damon was offered a substandard contract with a signifigant cut in pay which was less than mike cameron and Bobby Abreau signed for. They squeezed him out. They did the same thing to Torre.

And Boston won the championship once again 3 years later (2007) after letting all those fading pieces go which makes your statement that they havent found success since entirely wrong.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So where were the guys they were going to replace those players with?
Please tell me what catchers have been available that can hit like Posada still can? You seriously don't think that Mariano Rivera couldnt get 45 million on the open market 2 years ago??? Brad lidge got 37.5 for 3 years! Brad freakin Lidge! And that was a season removed from him having a 5.28 era.

Only someone who was clueless would infer that the Red Sox did the wrong thing by letting those players go. Yeah It would have been a good move to keep pedro and pay him 50 million and get a single good season out of him. And Millar really lit it up as a 37 year old in the NL. And for your info, lowell is making a lot of money to do nothing. The Red Sox didnt kick him in the hip, he got hurt. Oh poor manny, he was so mistreated in Boston. That 125 million they gave him was soooo wronggg. He pouted because they did not want to give him another long term deal for mega money when he was on the decline. They were 100% right in trading him as he dogged it and faked injuries and after one good 1/2 of a season has gone steadily down hill. Would you want to be paying him 25 million a year for the next 2 years? And yes the red sox owed a great deal of gratitude to Bronson Arroyo and that 24-19 record and 4.19 era over 2 1/2 years. Trading him to a team to the NL was a terrible thing for his career. He has only been able to bank $33 million in 5 years in Cincy as a mediocre pitcher.

And the yankees didnt re-sign Damon or matsui because they wanted them to leave. Damon was offered a substandard contract with a signifigant cut in pay which was less than mike cameron and Bobby Abreau signed for. They squeezed him out. They did the same thing to Torre.

And Boston won the championship once again 3 years later (2007) after letting all those fading pieces go which makes your statement that they havent found success since entirely wrong.

but w/o Manny they haven't won squat chuck

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

No Manny , no rings chuck , it's that simple , they don't sign him , the curse is still in tact

LOL. Yeah the indians rode manny all the way to the title too. And he has carried the Dodgers to what exactly?

Funny how your chest got puffed out again after the 10 year dry spell. What happened? The umpires stopped cheating? Remember when they were all against the yankees?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

but w/o Manny they haven't won squat chuck

They have won more titles than the yankees have this decade and the yankees never ever win without outspending everyone.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They have won more titles than the yankees have this decade and the yankees never ever win without outspending everyone.

2-2 chuck ,but , you guys ain't winning squat w/o manny , he was a man among boys

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

2-2 chuck ,but , you guys ain't winning squat w/o manny , he was a man among boys

First of all, I am not a Red Sox fan except when they play the yankees. And that statement says all you need to know. I guess they should just cease operations up there. And 2000 was last decade.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They have won more titles than the yankees have this decade and the yankees never ever win without outspending everyone.

This is also wrong. You are a knowledgable guy but you keep allowing me to find inaccuracies.

In 1998, the Baltimore orioles had the highest payroll in baseball with 70 million, 8 million more than the bombers who went on that year to win the world series.

Sorry Charlie.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This is also wrong. You are a knowledgable guy but you keep allowing me to find inaccuracies.

In 1998, the Baltimore orioles had the highest payroll in baseball with 70 million, 8 million more than the bombers who went on that year to win the world series.

Sorry Charlie.

It was $74.1 million against $73.9 million, so yeah, technically the Yanks didn't outspend everybody, close enough though.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It was $74.1 million against $73.9 million, so yeah, technically the Yanks didn't outspend everybody, close enough though.

hmmmm. Where did you get that info? I have a USA today chart that says 70-62 o's. Of course, they could be wrong.

Where you been Snipe? We have some gambling to do.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

hmmmm. Where did you get that info? I have a USA today chart that says 70-62 o's. Of course, they could be wrong.

Where you been Snipe? We have some gambling to do.

http://www.baseballchronology.com/Ba...98/Payroll.asp

You can view the individual salaries here too:

http://www.baseballchronology.com/Ba...8/Salaries.asp

O's wasted $5.4 million on 74 innings from Jimmy Key.


Been busy and neglecting horse racing, now that Saratoga season is starting I will be around more.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This is also wrong. You are a knowledgable guy but you keep allowing me to find inaccuracies.

In 1998, the Baltimore orioles had the highest payroll in baseball with 70 million, 8 million more than the bombers who went on that year to win the world series.

Sorry Charlie.

Well my proof readers just havent been keeping up. I figure that gales is allowed literary license (or to just make things up like the great umpire conspiricy) then I can generalize. That and the "wooden leg" thread have me distracted.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well my proof readers just havent been keeping up. I figure that gales is allowed literary license (or to just make things up like the great umpire conspiricy) then I can generalize. That and the "wooden leg" thread have me distracted.

Is that "chuckese" for "I was wrong about that. My mistake."

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

http://www.baseballchronology.com/Ba...98/Payroll.asp

You can view the individual salaries here too:

http://www.baseballchronology.com/Ba...8/Salaries.asp

O's wasted $5.4 million on 74 innings from Jimmy Key.


Been busy and neglecting horse racing, now that Saratoga season is starting I will be around more.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/b...aspx?year=1998

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

LOL. Yeah the indians rode manny all the way to the title too. And he has carried the Dodgers to what exactly?

To be fair, the Indians went to postseason 5 of 7 years with Manny and would have been 6 of 7 but for the strike in 1994. They won 2 AL pennants. Since Manny left they have been to postseason 2 of 10 years. They did have a ton of good players those years and weren't "riding" Manny alone, but he was a massive part of it. For cleveland sports, the Manny years were the absolute best you can get.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/b...aspx?year=1998

I've seen that issue before with USAToday, they just sum up the salaries for all the guys on your final roster and ignore who is actually paying them. For instance 2009 all of Gary Sheffield's $14 million is charged to the Mets on USAToday when the Mets only paid him $400,000. Meanwhile Sheffield doesn't count towards the Tigers who released him yet paid him $14 million.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

To be fair, the Indians went to postseason 5 of 7 years with Manny and would have been 6 of 7 but for the strike in 1994. They won 2 AL pennants. Since Manny left they have been to postseason 2 of 10 years. They did have a ton of good players those years and weren't "riding" Manny alone, but he was a massive part of it. For cleveland sports, the Manny years were the absolute best you can get.

Yeah but they didnt win so they are cursed and they suck. At least that is what gales will tell you.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Is that "chuckese" for "I was wrong about that. My mistake."

Yes because I always expect someone to comb through salary archives trying to find a way to nitpick about a general statement that I made to another poster.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I've seen that issue before with USAToday, they just sum up the salaries for all the guys on your final roster and ignore who is actually paying them. For instance 2009 all of Gary Sheffield's $14 million is charged to the Mets on USAToday when the Mets only paid him $400,000. Meanwhile Sheffield doesn't count towards the Tigers who released him yet paid him $14 million.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/