10:30pm Sunday Night President's Having a Press Conference?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

as for pakistan-they're doing their best to keep everyone happy. us, their citizens who hate us, their citizens who want an islamic theocracy, those who don't.....not surprised that bin laden was there, and i won't be surprised to find that some paki higher ups were helping him stay in hiding.

Pretty good summation. Now we get to deal with the equally ugly reality that is Karzai screaming we need to get out of his country.

[Danzig]

no doubt karzai is taking a lot of heat-he wants to stay in power, but probably doesn't want to appear as a u.s. puppet. afganistan is a mess; it was mishandled and shunted aside for iraq's sake, now it's just appearing to be an endless quagmire. people are talking about having discussions with the taliban- i don't see us agreeing to that. we need to get the heck out of there, that situation will probably never improve.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the seals did a great job-the firefight didn't last much time at all; the majority of the approximate 40 mins involved was for search and seizure after the gunfight. can't help but wonder how much useful info was brought back for further investigating....hard drives, cell phones, bank records, plans. ought to be a treasure trove of info.

as for pakistan-they're doing their best to keep everyone happy. us, their citizens who hate us, their citizens who want an islamic theocracy, those who don't.....not surprised that bin laden was there, and i won't be surprised to find that some paki higher ups were helping him stay in hiding.

a masterful job; props to obama for going with the seal attack rather than the bombing that gates favored. not much info to be found and brought back when everything gets blown to kingdom come.

stop being so reasonable. the internet is an extension of the shout-fest that passes for media these days. if i were steve, i'd ban you.

no one wants to hear a nuanced opinion anymore. people shouting at each other is where the money is.

you stupid ****.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

stop being so reasonable. the internet is an extension of the shout-fest that passes for media these days. if i were steve, i'd ban you.

no one wants to hear a nuanced opinion anymore. people shouting at each other is where the money is.

you stupid ****.

lol
nice quote by the way! as an aside, the third shelby foote is going well.

[rpncaine]

Hell if you think about it, it's the perfect final f*** you by Bin Laden. By making sure when we do get him he's right under the Pakkies nose and so we come down hard on them. Even if they didn't know he was there (and I can't see how they couldn't) it is brilliant.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Danzig

lol
nice quote by the way! as an aside, the third shelby foote is going well.

you're a better person than i. it's sits shamefully on my bookshelf with a nearly unbroken spine.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no doubt karzai is taking a lot of heat-he wants to stay in power, but probably doesn't want to appear as a u.s. puppet. afganistan is a mess; it was mishandled and shunted aside for iraq's sake, now it's just appearing to be an endless quagmire. people are talking about having discussions with the taliban- i don't see us agreeing to that. we need to get the heck out of there, that situation will probably never improve.

Ditto. We've fallen into what the Russians went through. It's tribal, it's unregulated - let the rest of the middle east, and Putin, worry about it. The only inroad we've made is to get some villagers on our side, because we'll pay them more than the Taliban will. And that will only last as long as the money flows. Let it just be the heroin capital of the world.

PS - I've never read any of Shelby Foote's civil war stuff, but I'm aware of it - what's the best one to start with?

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Riot

Ditto. We've fallen into what the Russians went through. It's tribal, it's unregulated - let the rest of the middle east, and Putin, worry about it. The only inroad we've made is to get some villagers on our side, because we'll pay them more than the Taliban will. And that will only last as long as the money flows. Let it just be the heroin capital of the world.

PS - I've never read any of Shelby Foote's civil war stuff, but I'm aware of it - what's the best one to start with?

danny's probably a better source but it's written as a chronological history.

i only finished fort sumter to perryville and skimmed the last two but if you want to have an encyclopedic knowledge start with that and work your way through. as much as i loved him as a commentator on the ken burns series i just found 2000 pages plus more of a challenge than i was up to.

i also gave up on ulysses, infinite jest, and gravities rainbow.

i try to be smart but some books just kick my ass.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

danny's probably a better source but it's written as a chronological history.

i only finished fort sumter to perryville and skimmed the last two but if you want to have an encyclopedic knowledge start with that and work your way through. as much as i loved him as a commentator on the ken burns series i just found 2000 pages plus more of a challenge than i was up to.

i also gave up on ulysses, infinite jest, and gravities rainbow.

i try to be smart but some books just kick my ass.

Ulysses is a mean joke. Off to Amazon.

[Danzig]

there are three books, fort sumer to perryville; fredericksburg to meridian, and the last is red river to appamattox. the first book is just over 900 pages, the other two are each over 1k. i recommend the books for anyone not frightened at reading books that took a total of 20 years to be written. lots of details, but not boring to read.

as for ulysses-ugh.

now war and peace, that's a good book. i know people crack jokes about it, but it's excellent.

[Mike]

There needs to be a real poll to see what your typical American muslim thinks about the killing of bin-Laden.

I'm quite perturbed with what the main spokesmen of their institutions of higher learning, along with their most widely revered and respected clerics, seem to be saying about how we desecrated the body of one of theirs.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

I posted this on the poll thread:

If you want photos, Reuters has some here and is making a claim (not of bin Laden, but of two others there in the compound)

http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound

the one guy looks like he's laying on a toy water gun

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Mike

There needs to be a real poll to see what your typical American muslim thinks about the killing of bin-Laden.

I'm quite perturbed with what the main spokesmen of their institutions of higher learning, along with their most widely revered and respected clerics, seem to be saying about how we desecrated the body of one of theirs.

Frankly, and this coming from a person who has always respected other cultures and religions, I could care less! This butcher wasn't a man of any god, he killed women and children without mercy or regard for their beliefs! The fact that we took the time to wash and clean the body and conduct things in accordance with Islamic law was out of respect for law abiding Muslims not him. If folks can't see that it is because they don't want to....American Muslims have been consistent in their relief this monster is gone.

[dellinger63]

These photos and people are sickening.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ash-grows.html

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

American Muslims have been consistent in their relief this monster is gone.

American Muslims at least Pakistani muslim males living in NYC have their own secret problem..........


It's a well-kept secret in Pakistani homes across the city: Young women violently forced to return to their homeland for arranged marriages.

In homes throughout the metropolitan area, violence against thousands of young women who are forced to go back to Pakistan to wed is shamelessly hushed as a "family matter."

"Eighty percent of the community has this problem" in New York, said Bazah Roohi of the Asian American Network Against Abuse of Human Rights (ANAA). "Women don't have their own choice.

"They try to fight. They are unsuccessful. Parents are very strict. They just beat them and take them to Pakistan.

"Their fathers and brothers say, "This is [a] family problem,'" said Roohi. "Then [the girls] disappear."

A Queens woman, now 29, recounted how as a teen she was tricked and drugged by her parents and forced to return to Pakistan to wed.

"My father said, 'You're going to get married. I have a gun in my bag. I'm going to use it,'" she recalled.

Her horrific ordeal ended when she escaped a year later.

In Pakistan, it would not have been a crime if her father pulled the trigger, but an "honor killing."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...me_to_p-2.html

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

American Muslims at least Pakistani muslim males living in NYC have their own secret problem..........


It's a well-kept secret in Pakistani homes across the city: Young women violently forced to return to their homeland for arranged marriages.

In homes throughout the metropolitan area, violence against thousands of young women who are forced to go back to Pakistan to wed is shamelessly hushed as a "family matter."

"Eighty percent of the community has this problem" in New York, said Bazah Roohi of the Asian American Network Against Abuse of Human Rights (ANAA). "Women don't have their own choice.

"They try to fight. They are unsuccessful. Parents are very strict. They just beat them and take them to Pakistan.

"Their fathers and brothers say, "This is [a] family problem,'" said Roohi. "Then [the girls] disappear."

A Queens woman, now 29, recounted how as a teen she was tricked and drugged by her parents and forced to return to Pakistan to wed.

"My father said, 'You're going to get married. I have a gun in my bag. I'm going to use it,'" she recalled.

Her horrific ordeal ended when she escaped a year later.

In Pakistan, it would not have been a crime if her father pulled the trigger, but an "honor killing."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...me_to_p-2.html

This is less than shocking.

[satan's twin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

there are three books, fort sumer to perryville; fredericksburg to meridian, and the last is red river to appamattox. the first book is just over 900 pages, the other two are each over 1k. i recommend the books for anyone not frightened at reading books that took a total of 20 years to be written. lots of details, but not boring to read.

as for ulysses-ugh.now war and peace, that's a good book. i know people crack jokes about it, but it's excellent.

Glad to hear someone else has thoroughly enjoyed this classic as much as I have. A hundred pages into it and it's not exactly kept me on the edge of my chair. I don't think I could understand it less if I had a copy of it in Braille.

[Riot]

Anybody wanting to know how "American Muslims" are reacting to bin Laden's death hasn't been reading the news. There is plenty there. As bin Laden killed many Muslims and bastardized Islam in the name of terror, they are thrilled. And hope that his death will help take the unreasonable and unjustified hate away that is directed at them over the past 10 years.

Unfortunately I doubt that last one with some people.

Originally Posted by Mike
There needs to be a real poll to see what your typical American muslim thinks about the killing of bin-Laden.

I'm quite perturbed with what the main spokesmen of their institutions of higher learning, along with their most widely revered and respected clerics, seem to be saying about how we desecrated the body of one of theirs.

Is there a "typical Christian"? Who would that be? Like Christian sects, Muslim sects are not all alike. The ultra-conservative foreign imans say one thing, the middle says another, the liberal says another.

If you google "American Muslim reaction to death OBL" you will get hundreds of hits, all glad he's dead. You will see the "main spokesmen of their institutions of higher learning and widely revered and respected clerics" are thrilled he's dead.

The US did consult Islamic experts on burying bin Laden at sea, and it's fine. It's the extremists that are not happy with it. bin Laden didn't represent all Muslims - he was a freaking terrorist, for god's sake.

It's the war on terror, not the war on Muslims.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/05...l-the-ideology.

Chicago: American Muslims, like their non-Muslim peers, are welcoming the news that Osama bin Laden was killed Sunday. Many Muslims add that even though the death of the Al Qaeda leader is a positive step in fighting global terrorism, the greater challenge is ending the hateful dogma Mr. bin Laden represented – a dogma that many saw as a gross distortion of their faith.

Bin Laden’s ideologies created “an albatross around the practitioners of Islam, including American Muslims,” which is why his death prompts a collective "sigh of relief,” says Madhi Bray, spokesperson for the Muslim American Society, a civil liberties organization based in Washington, DC.

“You have the kill to ideology that has supported Al Qaeda. That’s going to be the great mission, to fight intolerance and the lack of sensitivity among people,” Mr. Bray says.

Muslims in the U.S. reacted quickly, and with relief, Monday to the news that Osama bin Laden had been killed. But some wondered if it will really ease tensions that many Muslims feel from their neighbors.

On the streets of Dearborn, Mich., Muslims were reveling in the death of the al-Qaida leader.

"This guy should have been dead a long time ago," says Hassain Yami. "Hopefully the rest them will be dead soon."

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/02/135926...ut-not-for-all

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._of_bin_l.html
Hours after Osama bin Laden’s death was announced, the office of the Paterson-based American Arab Forum received a phone call. The person on the line was looking for Aref Assaf, the organization’s Columbia University-educated president.

"‘Tell your boss that we got his friend and we’re going to get him,’" the man said, according to Assaf, who dismissed the threat as kids pulling a prank.

While the call represented a kind of hostility Assaf said many Arabs commonly endure in the United States, he believed bin Laden’s death might create an opportunity "to open a new chapter."

"We have been paying the price for bin Laden for the last 10 years," Assaf said. "Enough castigating our community. We hope this will serve as a reminder to America that the real source of terror was not in Paterson or Dearborn, Michigan (two cities with significant Arab and Muslim populations) but in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

http://live.washingtonpost.com/osama...-reaction.html

Harris Zafar serves as National Spokesperson and National Director of Youth Outreach for the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA. In this role, Harris leads the effort to role-out the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community’s nationwide Muslims for Peace initiative across the 60+ youth chapters throughout the country, as well as to encourage Muslim youth to speak out about the true, peaceful and tolerant teachings of Islam. Harris is a frequent speaker and lecturer about Islam at conferences, universities, schools, churches and other public events. He is also an award-winning member of the Muslim Writers Guild of America. An American-born Muslim, Harris frequently writes about Islamic issues in various publications.

Muslim response

How do the Muslims and Al'Queda feel about the death of their leader?
A. Harris Zafar : First, I need to clarify that Osama bin Laden is NOT a Muslim leader, nor has he ever been. He is a political leader who aims to spread hate and violence. Al-Qaeda is certainly going to show a response. But as follwers of the real teachings of Islam, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community says that their political ideology is completely contrary to the teachings of Islam.

Osama and the future of terrorism
How do you see the future of terrorism in the name of Islam after this event? Do you see more acceptance of your message of peace and loyalty among American Muslims?

A. Harris Zafar : I hope to see more acceptance, although I don't know if I can expect it. Usama did a LOT to damage the perception of Islam, and people don't really trust Muslims anymore. But groups like al-Qaeda have contributed to that. So as moderate Muslims, we know we have out work cut out for us, which is why we won't stop advocating for a separation of mosque and state, for freedom of religion and speech, and for loyalty to our country. We will still use our Muslims for Peace platform (www.MuslimsForPeace.org) to spread Islam's message.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

there are three books, fort sumer to perryville; fredericksburg to meridian, and the last is red river to appamattox. the first book is just over 900 pages, the other two are each over 1k. i recommend the books for anyone not frightened at reading books that took a total of 20 years to be written. lots of details, but not boring to read.

as for ulysses-ugh.

now war and peace, that's a good book. i know people crack jokes about it, but it's excellent.

That's what I am starting with, first one (ordered). Thanks.

Having Borzoi, of course I have always loved the hunt scene in W & P

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

American Muslims at least Pakistani muslim males living in NYC have their own secret problem..........

It's nice you have a special emotional focus on the worldwide welfare of women, and women's rights. I'm sure what happens in Somalia is of great concern to you, too.