2015: American Pharoah becomes 12th Triple Crown winner - Page 14

freddymo · #**261** 05-18-2015, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're a trip handicapper now....in addition to becoming a sudden fanboy?

Hanging out with you for 12 years has some very small benefits

blackthroatedwind · #**262** 05-18-2015, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Hanging out with you for 12 years has some very small benefits

There are a lot of unfortunate ways to go with that. Let's settle for "few if any"

RolloTomasi · #**263** 05-18-2015, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He wasn't watching the start either.

Thanks, I completely took that for granted. In my defense, here California, we've been taught by the stewards that problems at the start couldn't possibly effect the outcome of a race.

blackthroatedwind · #**264** 05-18-2015, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Thanks, I completely took that for granted. In my defense, here California, we've been taught by the stewards that problems at the start couldn't possibly effect the outcome of a race.

Here too....despite it being the most important part of the race....where the most stuff happens that can dramatically affect the running of the race. It's fascinating actually.

Indian Charlie · #**265** 05-18-2015, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

That didn't help. Sorry, I think you are reaching here.

That's fine. If everyone agreed with everyone about everything, the world would be even more messed up than it is.

I am right though

Rudeboyelvis · #**266** 05-18-2015, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Thanks, I completely took that for granted. In my defense, here California, we've been taught by the stewards that problems at the start couldn't possibly effect the outcome of a race.

So someone should have come down because the horse dwelt for a split second, or because after he was clear and running in company it became clear that this "presser" had no chance of staying and was taken back? which is it?

Oh, perhaps they should have declared the the entire race a non-wagering even and returned all of the pools because there's no way to prove the starter didn't possibly compromised his start

Whatever. I think the horse is dressed up, based on what he has proven on the track, you think he has talent. So be it - we'll find out soon enough

Indian Charlie · #**267** 05-18-2015, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Lots of tilting at windmills. Since the running of the Preakness, in both this thread and the "American Pharaoh with authority" thread there was at best a couple of comments about Dortmund being held back and Tale Of the Verve running second that might qualify as "detracting" from American Pharoah's Preakness performance. Otherwise, what we have been treated to is some paranoid ramblings about American Pharaoh's vulnerability to internet criticism, a rather oddly placed attack on D. Wayne Lukas (as if any number of other trainers, including American Pharoah's, couldn't be cast in the same light), and Freddy's weird appropriation of American Pharaoh for his beloved Phipps stable (sorry, dude, I know hopes were high with Orb).

Sadly, the only thing remotely related to actual events in horse racing in either thread is whether Materiality can rate or not.

Yeah, I'm not really sure how my comment about ridiculous comments being thrown around about AP are paranoid ramblings.

My comments about Lukas were perfectly timed, as I was responding to that Somerset character refuting his/her belief that Lukas is a great trainer. They had nothing to do with AP at all. Did you miss the previous few posts about how great Lukas is, put forth by Somerset and Sightseek (mostly the former)??

I can't really be certain what Freddy's comments were about, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't appropriating AP for the Phipps stable. I believe he was just trying to say that if AP was a Phipps horse, he'd be getting a lot more Internet love than he has had thus far.

You really aren't making any sense at all.

Indian Charlie · #**268** 05-18-2015, 07:58 PM

I really don't see either Frosted or Materiality as a significant threat in the upcoming Belmont, but of the two, I have to believe the race sets up better for Materiality.

I don't know which of the two is better, nor does it matter to me, but right now, I think Frosted is still figuring things out and probably has more upside.

It just seems extremely unlikely he's going to win.

RolloTomasi · #**269** 05-18-2015, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, I'm not really sure how my comment about ridiculous comments being thrown around about AP are paranoid ramblings.

Where are these ridiculous comments you speak of?

Facebook?

Quote:

My comments about Lukas were perfectly timed, as I was responding to that Somerset character refuting his/her belief that Lukas is a great trainer. They had nothing to do with AP at all. Did you miss the previous few posts about how great Lukas is, put forth by Somerset and Sightseek (mostly the former)??

Perfectly timed? How so? Because Mr. Z. ran 5th in the Preakness? That's the time to bring up a rather vague story of a horse that broke down?

I saw comments lauding Baffert, too, but there was no mention of Tweebster or mysterious sudden deaths.

Quote:

I can't really be certain what Freddy's comments were about, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't appropriating AP for the Phipps stable. I believe he was just trying to say that if AP was a Phipps horse, he'd be getting a lot more Internet love than he has had thus far.

Tongue-in-cheek. A softball lobbed at Freddy, who I presume is not sober at the moment.

Relax, American Pharaoh will be at least 2/5 in the Belmont.

Quote:

You really aren't making any sense at all.

You've had a tough time "gauging" things recently.

It will probably pass after June 6 when you reveal to the world who the best 3yo in the crop is.

RolloTomasi · #**270** 05-18-2015, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

If being out gunned by Stanford is proof he can rate then I guess he could effect AP but nobody should be convinced he can rate and be effective and we know AP can rate and finish. Seems to me all you have to do is follow Materiality until he is spent.

I don't know Freddy. I think most of the American Pharaoh fans that are not currently developing skunk spots want want to see him go straight to the front and never look back. This charge is being led by none other than Steve Haskin, who in his most recent "piece" declares American Pharaoh as the only truly deserved contender for the Triple Crown since Spectacular Bid (think about the horses that comment dismisses).

Now you're telling us that he should simply sit off of Materiality and wait for that one to tire. Interesting for sure. But I guess it goes back to AP having this mythical "off day" in the Kentucky Derby, you know, the only time in his career when he sat just of a talented frontrunner (Dortmund). Was it mere coincidence that it was also the only time American Pharaoh didn't glide away from the competition through the stretch?

Now maybe Materiality is no Dortmund (though the speed figures might say otherwise), but certainly the extra 1/4 mile could make up the difference.

blackthroatedwind · #**271** 05-18-2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I don't know Freddy. I think most of the American Pharaoh fans that are not currently developing skunk spots want want to see him go straight to the front and never look back. This charge is being led by none other than Steve Haskin, who in his most recent "piece" declares American Pharaoh as the only truly deserved contender for the Triple Crown since Spectacular Bid (think about the horses that comment dismisses).

Now you're telling us that he should simply sit off of Materiality and wait for that one to tire. Interesting for sure. But I guess it goes back to AP having this mythical "off day" in the Kentucky Derby, you know, the only time in his career when he sat just of a talented frontrunner (Dortmund). Was it mere coincidence that it was also the only time American Pharaoh didn't glide away from the competition through the stretch?

Now maybe Materiality is no Dortmund (though the speed figures might say otherwise), but certainly the extra 1/4 mile could make up the difference.

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

RolloTomasi · #**272** 05-18-2015, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

blackthroatedwind · #**273** 05-18-2015, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.....but you knew that.

Dunbar · #**274** 05-18-2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

Haskin wrote that AP was the first since Spectacular Bid to "fit the profile" of previous TC winners. But I don't think Haskin said AP was the only deserving contender since Spectacular Bid. Here's what he wrote at BloodHorse:

"And the reality is this: American Pharoah is the first Derby and Preakness winner since Spectacular Bid to fit the profile of a Triple Crown winner. The naming of champions didn’t begin until the late 1930s, and since then, six of the seven Triple Crown winners – Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, and Whirlaway all were 2-year-old champions (either in the Daily Racing Form or Turf and Sport Digest polls), as, of course, was American Pharoah, who is the first juvenile champion since Spectacular Bid 36 years ago to attempt a Triple Crown sweep.

In addition, Triple Crown winners Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, War Admiral, and Gallant Fox all won the Belmont Stakes wire to wire. Even the late-running Whirlaway was sent to the lead early in the race. As everyone is well aware, American Pharoah certainly fits that profile as well."

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...s-the-day.aspx

--Dunbar

blackthroatedwind · #**275** 05-18-2015, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Haskin wrote that AP was the first since Spectacular Bid to "fit the profile" of previous TC winners. But I don't think Haskin said AP was the only deserving contender since Spectacular Bid. Here's what he wrote at BloodHorse:

"And the reality is this: American Pharoah is the first Derby and Preakness winner since Spectacular Bid to fit the profile of a Triple Crown winner. The naming of champions didn’t begin until the late 1930s, and since then, six of the seven Triple Crown winners – Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, and Whirlaway all were 2-year-old champions (either in the Daily Racing Form or Turf and Sport Digest polls), as, of course, was American Pharoah, who is the first juvenile champion since Spectacular Bid 36 years ago to attempt a Triple Crown sweep.

In addition, Triple Crown winners Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, War Admiral, and Gallant Fox all won the Belmont Stakes wire to wire. Even the late-running Whirlaway was sent to the lead early in the race. As everyone is well aware, American Pharoah certainly fits that profile as well."

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...s-the-day.aspx

--Dunbar

Who knew Triple Crown winners had a profile. Did Smarty Jones get caught by Birdstone because he suddenly realized at the eighth pole that he wasn't 2YO champion?

Indian Charlie · #**276** 05-18-2015, 09:40 PM

Two things.

Haskin is over the top and reaching, but I see no reason to get bent out of shape. It's just an opinion.

Rollo suddenly seems to have both reading comprehension difficulties and really odd selective memory problems.

Danzig · #**277** 05-18-2015, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who knew Triple Crown winners had a profile. Did Smarty Jones get caught by Birdstone because he suddenly realized at the eighth pole that he wasn't 2YO champion?

I think it is a dilemma. The tc is a hard thing to pull off....but as ive asked here in the past, is it like flipping a coin? That is to say, just because we have seen heads flipped every year since affirmed, the odds on flipping tails on the next toss is still 50 50...

Indian Charlie · #**278** 05-18-2015, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

I think it is a dilemma. The tc is a hard thing to pull off....but as ive asked here in the past, is it like flipping a coin? That is to say, just because we have seen heads flipped every year since affirmed, the odds on flipping tails on the next toss is still 50 50...

actually, coin flips, they aren't quite 50/50.