Obama's support for Ground Zero Mosque

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Honu

If they dont see the trouble and hurt that they are causing then how can they expect to have people on their side.

ditto. just take a larger world view.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

But they didnt build the fn thing 10 years after they bombed the crap out of us.
The Hawaiians are a pretty forgiving folk the military people who were there who survived maybe not so much. I think had the U.S not had a base there and was able to keep the Japanese from taking over the island the Hawaiians might have had just a lil diffirent view. Had the Japanese conqured the island and did to the Hawaiian people what they did to the other islands they captured maybe the locals would have a diffirent outlook.

i agree. no country that attacks us should be able to build a cultural center in that area. when one wants to do so, let us know.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

if we're going to successful in the struggle against religious extremism, we need to educate ourselves enough that we can distinguish between terrorists and muslims.

some muslims are going to be terrorists. a lot of terrorists are going to be muslim. i get all that.

but i think the united states vs. muslims is a much tougher fight than the united states vs. terrorists and i just hope we don't waste so much time jerking off over what serves narrow short term political gain that we lose sight of what actually matters for our long term benefit.

sufis are the unitarians of the the islamic world. if we don't have them on our side, we've taken on a much tougher fight than needed.

You do realize that the guy who shot up the Army in Texas wasn't a career terrorist. The guy who left a bomb in Manhattan (this last year) was also not a career terrorist. There is a risk that some otherwise peaceful Moslem going to this Mosque loses it, and starts shooting tourists over at ground zero. Just like insurance companies study risk, there is a level of risk here that I think is higher with members of this religion. I think putting a Mosque that close is highly questionable in judgement. I think it'd be safer for everyone involved if they show some better judgement. The reason there is a higher risk with this religion is because their prophet encouraged them to do these things to non-Muslims. It's not because someone has done something to them. They're prophet is the problem. They can blame their ways on a lot of people, but their prophet is the cause of all of this killing.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

If they dont see the trouble and hurt that they are causing then how can they expect to have people on their side.

an incredibly insightful post. one of your best ever. now, just apply that to your point of view, try it on for size. it works both ways.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

an incredibly insightful post. one of your best ever. now, just apply that to your point of view, try it on for size. it works both ways.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You do realize that the guy who shot up the Army in Texas wasn't a career terrorist. The guy who left a bomb in Manhattan (this last year) was also not a career terrorist. There is a risk that some otherwise peaceful Moslem going to this Mosque loses it, and starts shooting tourists over at ground zero. Just like insurance companies study risk, there is a level of risk here that I think is higher with members of this religion. I think putting a Mosque that close is highly questionable in judgement. I think it'd be safer for everyone involved if they show some better judgement.

i disagree that either of these acts were committed by an "otherwise peaceful" muslim who lost it.

both were committed by individuals who sought out support from known terrorist organizations.

i argue that making the assumption "all muslims are potential terrorists" doesn't actually serve our security needs. it works against them. we need the majority of muslims that aren't terrorists on our side.

unless you're a republican running for office, this ridiculous mosque debate won't help.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

an incredibly insightful post. one of your best ever. now, just apply that to your point of view, try it on for size. it works both ways.

They're the ones that choose to participate in a "religion" that encourages killing members that want to leave. They're the ones that participate in a "religion" that calls for either killing non-muslims, or taxing them for not being Muslim. Stuff like this could be why Honu is upset about this, and not about Buddhists, and Hindus.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They're the ones that choose to participate in a "religion" that encourages killing members that want to leave. They're the ones that participate in a "religion" that calls for either killing non-muslims, or taxing them for not being Muslim. Stuff like this could be why Honu is upset about this, and not about Buddhists, and Hindus.

you're wrong. not all muslims view everything in the same way. i suggest you also educate yourself more about this. go find the article i posted from the new york times, it might enlighten you. then again...no, it probably wouldn't. you believing the above doesn't make it true. hopefull there will always be more open- than closed-minded people in this country, otherwise we're all screwed.

and really, i agree with miraja and a few others who have said similar-we'd all be better off without any of these religions. most of the people who say they follow them don't anyway. take most christians, they no more follow the teachings of jesus than my cat does. look at the story the other day about the christian school that wouldn't let the girl be a student because she has two moms. yeah, that's exactly what jesus taught.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i disagree that either of these acts were committed by an "otherwise peaceful" muslim who lost it.

both were committed by individuals who sought out support from known terrorist organizations.

Yea, but most of their lives were spent being as peaceful as the moslems who would attend this Mosque. They flipped out, and bad things tend to happen to non-Moslems when Moslems flip out.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea, but most of their lives were spent being as peaceful as the moslems who would attend this Mosque. They flipped out, and bad things tend to happen to non-Moslems when Moslems flip out.

yeah, cause these terrorists only target non-muslims.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

LOL...You weren't responding to me. Even if you're were, it's pretty obvious America doesn't have over 2 million Moslems killing people (like their prophet gave them the authority to do.) Lady, you got a definite accounting problem. Why don't you present a person's position as it is? Embellishing it is a bad habit that you've picked up.

Yes, I'm the one doing embellishing, when you describe Islam as you do.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you're wrong. not all muslims view everything in the same way. i suggest you also educate yourself more about this. go find the article i posted from the new york times, it might enlighten you. then again...no, it probably wouldn't. you believing the above doesn't make it true. hopefull there will always be more open- than closed-minded people in this country, otherwise we're all screwed.

No, you are the closed minded one here. You continue to ignore the fact these people simply follow their prophet's teachings when they kill non-Moslems. They aren't rogue in the eyes of their prophet. When it comes to Islam, the facts are not on your side. You're holding the water for people who (if in the majority) would take away so many freedoms woman take for granted here.
This religion is serious business. They aren't playing, and you're dead wrong for believing people who follow a butcher. They've been given the right to lie to you(if it helps Islam.)

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea, but most of their lives were spent being as peaceful as the moslems who would attend this Mosque. They flipped out, and bad things tend to happen to non-Moslems when Moslems flip out.

i guarantee that any violence by muslim terrorists in a sufi mosque is more likely directed at sufi's than any non-muslim.

nine years in i doubt more than one in ten americans can actually tell you the difference between a sunni and a shiite, much less anything subtler. most would think hezbollah is interchangeable with hamas.

we keep trying to fight dumb with dumber.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea, but most of their lives were spent being as peaceful as the moslems who would attend this Mosque. They flipped out, and bad things tend to happen to non-Moslems when Moslems flip out.

Bad things tend to happen to non-murderers when murderers flip out. It's actually quite a bit more universal an adage than you may have first realized when typing that out.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I'm the one doing embellishing, when you describe Islam as you do.

Facts are on my side. He told them to kill non-Muslims, or tax them for being non-Muslim. 2 women's testimony= 1 mans. Treat your women like your other possessions(i.e. farm animals.) You want me to put a list of their prophets instructions up? I'm not creating the religion. All you apologists are ignoring the basics of that religion. Hence, you don't get why people have a problem with it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Facts are on my side. He told them to kill non-Muslims, or tax them for being non-Muslim. 2 women's testimony= 1 mans. Treat your women like your other possessions(i.e. farm animals.) You want me to put a list of their prophets instructions up? I'm not creating the religion. All you apologists are ignoring the basics of that religion. Hence, you don't get why people have a problem with it.

You are so objective.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Bad things tend to happen to non-murderers when murderers flip out. It's actually quite a bit more universal an adage than you may have first realized when typing that out.

They tend to have specific targets (based on not belonging to their group.) That comes from their prophet. This is something you apologists ignore routinely.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

You are so objective.

They all follow one guy, and what he said ain't pretty. When they want to die, what do they often do? They decide to make god happy by killing some non-Moslems (along with themselves.) Up until then, they are usually pretty cool folks, huh. I guess that the prophet telling them that's what God wants ....has no importance to you. Well, it does to me. I think it's pretty damn important stuff that you should wise up to.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

You are so objective.

Oh, lets talk about the facts in this religion. I would like nothing better. Expose it all. You really want to have to deny all that shyt this guy said to fk these people up?

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Facts are on my side. He told them to kill non-Muslims, or tax them for being non-Muslim. 2 women's testimony= 1 mans. Treat your women like your other possessions(i.e. farm animals.) You want me to put a list of their prophets instructions up? I'm not creating the religion. All you apologists are ignoring the basics of that religion. Hence, you don't get why people have a problem with it.

this is like suggesting that all jews and christians are bound by leviticus.

as much as non-theism colors my views, i'm not walking around suggesting that the majority of western society is committing daily blood sacrifice.

the muslim world is a mixed bag. a very little is scary 7th century. much more isn't. for our own sake, i hope we don't drive the part that isn't into the arms of those that are.