10:30pm Sunday Night President's Having a Press Conference?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I keep bringing this fact up because how are we to expect them to believe the killing of innocent people is evil when killing their own innocent family members is acceptable and their culture?

Again (an this is getting stressful for me) I have to agree with your point Dell. I've considered myself a feminist most of my life and I place the highest value on equal rights for women (all minorities as well). It's difficult for me to support a culture that denies them equality let alone one that treats them as slaves. The unfortunate fact is that most of the "third world" falls under this description. We, as a nation, are forced to deal with countries such as China, India and Pakistan for our own security. India is an example of an evolving culture where women and minorities are receiving more and more equal treatment. China has at least "opened up" somewhat and their economy has become more and more geared toward the principles of a free market. Civil rights still have a long way to go there but some progress has been made. Pakistan has the potential to follow in India's footsteps, when we abandoned them in the 90's they slipped back into basically a dictatorship, since we have improved relations, they show some signs of evolving. The government still must walk a tightrope by being an ally to the west while not pissing off the more radical Muslim population. Also the central government has little authority in the far reaches of the country. All in all, they may try our patience but it's a matter of the lesser of two evils.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

How many allies do we have where it's custom for a father to kill his daughter in order to preserve his honor?

Play with dogs you get fleas. These people are lower than dogs!

india is our ally, they still have areas there where folks throw a widow on her husbands funeral pyre. china is our #1 trading partner, they don't exactly have a stellar human rights' record. or womens' rights for that matter, where female babies are routinely abandoned, aborted, or killed. after all, if you can only have one, it better be a boy-girls are a dime a dozen.

at any rate, way to go with exploring the logic in what i said, or refuting it with logic.
when you say 'these people' do you mean all pakistanis, or just the ones who believe in honor killings? because, even tho it might be hard for you to grasp, 'they' don't all think that way.

just like not 'all of us' are of the same belief about things.


edit~and now i see somer already used the same three countries!

[Riot]

I may not like some cultural aspects of some of their citizens, but if the growing-into-the-fourth largest country in the world is chronically politically unstable and also has nuclear weapons - yeah. We have a real vested interest in what happens there.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

india is our ally, they still have areas there where folks throw a widow on her husbands funeral pyre. china is our #1 trading partner, they don't exactly have a stellar human rights' record. or womens' rights for that matter, where female babies are routinely abandoned, aborted, or killed. after all, if you can only have one, it better be a boy-girls are a dime a dozen.

at any rate, way to go with exploring the logic in what i said, or refuting it with logic.
when you say 'these people' do you mean all pakistanis, or just the ones who believe in honor killings? because, even tho it might be hard for you to grasp, 'they' don't all think that way.
just like not 'all of us' are of the same belief about things.


edit~and now i see somer already used the same three countries!

The people who look the other way, sisters, uncles, aunts are similarly guilty and judging by the NY column I posted where numbers are in the 80% range for arranged marriage, I'd say most. OF course EVERYONE involved in a honor killing (thought to number 4,000 over the last 10 years in Pakistan) is bin Lladen like scum. Also these girls aren't normally killed with a single shot or painless drugging but instead are butchered. I'm am sure somewhere in Pakistan is at least a few people with enough common sense to fight what they know is evil however they still must be in the minority and thus silent.

BTW India has a caste system that is a slap in the face of human rights. Sorry born with the wrong last name you're a beggar for life. China compared to where they were have come a long way but still treat their citizens like one would control a roach problem. But killing your own daughter to preserve your own honor? That's a special Dahmer-like sickness/evil. Meanwhile the Human Rights council of the UN wants details on the bin Laden raid?

[dellinger63]

If my math is correct bin Laden's 19 year old wife who now reportedly was sent to him 5 years previous was 14 when she arrived? She is from Yemen so I suspect they also have 'issues' shall we say. Can we find the proud father-in-law?

[Danzig]

just so you know, i find all those things abhorrent...but as a country, we many times look away at certain things in order to further our agenda. that's what's happening in this case.
hell, look at one of our big allies during ww2. stalin was a monster, remember? but he was the lesser of two evils at the time.

pakistan is similar to that. we do what we can when we can; perhaps in future we can help them change. that takes time.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

just so you know, i find all those things abhorrent...but as a country, we many times look away at certain things in order to further our agenda. that's what's happening in this case.
hell, look at one of our big allies during ww2. stalin was a monster, remember? but he was the lesser of two evils at the time.

pakistan is similar to that. we do what we can when we can; perhaps in future we can help them change. that takes time.

Sorry we disagree but we need to take the high road. If we can stop mothers from packing school lunches for their children surely we can require fathers not to marry off or kill their daughters.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Sorry we disagree but we need to take the high road. If we can stop mothers from packing school lunches for their children surely we can require fathers not to marry off or kill their daughters.

Certainly this should never occur in America, as I've said before...life in prison or deport their butt (for forced marriages)...!

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Certainly this should never occur in America, as I've said before...life in prison or deport their butt (for forced marriages)...!

But it does. 15 miles from where I grew up a girl is on the run 16 (I think) because of her barbaric father and the chicago press are giving little coverage (apparantly she's being safe housed thank God and allah) and the coverage they do, shows a grieving father with no explaination of why the daughter is missing tho most everyone knows the 'Paul Harvey' full version.

Father facing no charges.

[OldDog]

The freakin Kentucky Derby just ran. What are you all talking about?

Edit: Sorry, I should never come to this section of the forum. B'bye.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by OldDog

The freakin Kentucky Derby just ran. What are you all talking about?

Edit: Sorry, I should never come to this section of the forum. B'bye.

Personally speaking I despise turf/poly horses who do well on dirt. Just venting here I guess.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Personally speaking I despise turf/poly horses who do well on dirt. Just venting here I guess.

Not a big Cigar fan I take it?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Sorry we disagree but we need to take the high road. If we can stop mothers from packing school lunches for their children surely we can require fathers not to marry off or kill their daughters.

it's all well and good to say that, but we have a big issue over there, and we need pakistans assistance (limited as it is). doesn't mean we like how things are there, or agree with them, or want their ways to become ours. besides, isn't the saying you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?? look at tunisia, egypt...people there are moving towards freedom; the same can happen elsewhere, including pakistan. as word spreads, so will freedom and change.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's all well and good to say that, but we have a big issue over there, and we need pakistans assistance (limited as it is). doesn't mean we like how things are there, or agree with them, or want their ways to become ours. besides, isn't the saying you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?? look at tunisia, egypt...people there are moving towards freedom; the same can happen elsewhere, including pakistan. as word spreads, so will freedom and change.

We have 2 options we give them the 3.5 billion and find out whether they're friends or we give them nothing and find out the same thing. With the second suggestion we save 3.5 billion. No brainer IMO.

At a minimum, the new Egypt is likely to be less friendly to the US and less committed to peace with Israel, both of whom are popularly associated with the Mubarak regime. As such, Egypt would be far less inclined to support American policies in the region, including counter-terrorism cooperation, and to play its traditional stabilizing role in the peace process and Mideast generally. An Egypt such as this would constitute a dramatic change for the worse in the regional balance of power.

http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/...y-on-the-nile/

[Danzig]

dell, when you did a google search and found that article, how many search results had an opposite view?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Not a big Cigar fan I take it?

Cigar was a dirt horse who had been run on the wrong surface for the first part of his career!

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

dell, when you did a google search and found that article, how many search results had an opposite view?

A couple said Egypt has new freedom to impose religious law, that's all I could find other than individual quotes. Not good for what we consider little girls and who 'they' consider wife material. I'm talking 12-13 year olds mind you and sometimes cousins. Sick MFO's !!!!!

Can't wait to see bin Laden's Yemini father-in-law and all the father in laws on all the news shows and The View, Maddow etc etc. They'll get him (them) I'm sure.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Danzig

dell, when you did a google search and found that article, how many search results had an opposite view?

i admire your fortitude. i was going to try to post some witty variation of "don't waste your time" when i saw this.

now that dell's responded i'll do the same as him and dispose of wit.

don't waste your time.

the conversations here are generally about shouting points and framing all opposing viewpoints as equivalent to supporting slavery.

they're all terrorists and child molesters. nothing you post can change that.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

they're all terrorists and child molesters. nothing you post can change that.

And Muslim = Hindu = .... oh, what the hell.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

And Muslim = Hindu = .... oh, what the hell.

Hindus<<<<<<< Muslims

They don't kill their daughters. Minor details.