Jeremy Rose

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

I agree 100%. As an example Clemens vs Pettitte...

Pettitte - "I did it"...It's basically over and you never hear anything about it.

Clemens - "I didn't do it"...They've gone after him, his wife, his mistresses, he used Viagra, etc...and you know what...I can't find 1 person who actually believes him...

Great example! We are living in a society where a sense of entitlement and arrogance seem to be normal things now. I think Clemons is a despictable person, great ball player but not a guy I would make my kids to role model.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

However, and I have watched it many times, I'm not in the business of deciding intent and I dare anyone to tell me they are 100% sure it was intentional.

I am 100% sure it was intentional.

I don't think he intended to catch the eye obviously - just meant to lean forward and hit him across the face more than once to teach him a lesson about lugging in. The horse lugged in right across the heels of the winner and he could have gone down. Besides near injury - the lugging in also clearly cost the horse a better placing.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I am 100% sure it was intentional.

I don't think he intended to catch the eye obviously - just meant to lean forward and hit him across the face more than once to teach him a lesson about lugging in. The horse lugged in right across the heels of the winner and he could have gone down. Besides near injury - the lugging in also clearly cost the horse a better placing.

I'm still not so sure. Couldn't it be that he was aiming for where he hit the horse the two times after that?

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I am 100% sure it was intentional.

I don't think he intended to catch the eye obviously - just meant to lean forward and hit him across the face more than once to teach him a lesson about lugging in. The horse lugged in right across the heels of the winner and he could have gone down. Besides near injury - the lugging in also clearly cost the horse a better placing.

I've got to tell you, I've watched this thing too many times at this point. But one thing I am starting to lean towards is that when watching the head-on view, it really seems to me that Dominguez's horse bears out into the 2's path. If you look at the paths in the grass, the winner comes out off of the darker grass and that's when Appeal to the City ducks in. She seems to lug in more when watching the pan view than the head on.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I'm still not so sure. Couldn't it be that he was aiming for where he hit the horse the two times after that?

I do not know what part of the race you are speaking of, but the " telltale " blow was delivered just before the wire, just ONCE ...

When the mare's head jerked away, he did not hit her again ...

Otherwise I am in agreement with Blackthroatedwind, and I might add that whatever happened some punishment is in order, but the owner/trainer are not without responsibility here ...

If Jeremy Rose has had a reputation for excessive whipping and temper tantrums before, they knew ... And they chose to ride him ...

They never said this was his first ride for them, and as Rose and the connections work the same circuit, they were aware, at the very least, that he was a power rider and a whipper, as suggested ...

If the mare was a sensitive type, Rose did not fit her ... A rider of finesse rather than force would have been better ...

But if riding Rose gave them a winning advantage, the heavy whipping was part of the package .... And they chose to ride him ... --Knowing the mare would be whupped good, at the very least ...

Of course, there is a difference between knowing a rider is Mr. Whippy, and having the rider cross that line --accident or not ...

And as usual the only party here truly innocent and victimized is, of course, the horse...

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by prudery

I do not know what part of the race you are speaking of, but the " telltale " blow was delivered just before the wire, just ONCE ...

When the mare's head jerked away, he did not hit her again ...

You're completely wrong. . . watch the head-on again. He hits her twice more right after that. . .

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by prudery

I do not know what part of the race you are speaking of, but the " telltale " blow was delivered just before the wire, just ONCE ...

When the mare's head jerked away, he did not hit her again ...

Otherwise I am in agreement with Blackthroatedwind, and I might add that whatever happened some punishment is in order, but the owner/trainer are not without responsibility here ...

If Jeremy Rose has had a reputation for excessive whipping and temper tantrums before, they knew ... And they chose to ride him ...

They never said this was his first ride for them, and as Rose and the connections work the same circuit, they were aware, at the very least, that he was a power rider and a whipper, as suggested ...

If the mare was a sensitive type, Rose did not fit her ... A rider of finesse rather than force would have been better ...

But if riding Rose gave them a winning advantage, the heavy whipping was part of the package .... And they chose to ride him ... --Knowing the mare would be whupped good, at the very least ...

Of course, there is a difference between knowing a rider is Mr. Whippy, and having the rider cross that line --accident or not ...

And as usual the only party here truly innocent and victimized is, of course, the horse...

Ummmm...does your screen go dark after he cracks her across the face? He almost immediately hits her twice more on the shoulder after the initial blow.

[10 pnt move up]

I think trying to figure out if it was intentional or not is splitting hairs....he had the whip, it was under his control, the horse got hit. No one is thinking he was trying to injure the horse but teach the horse a lesson (which lesson is debatable), but the bottom line is he was in control. 6 months is very harsh, if it was much less then I don't think the story has the same vigor.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think trying to figure out if it was intentional or not is splitting hairs....he had the whip, it was under his control, the horse got hit. No one is thinking he was trying to injure the horse but teach the horse a lesson (which lesson is debatable), but the bottom line is he was in control. 6 months is very harsh, if it was much less then I don't think the story has the same vigor.

I disagree, the fact that he was under control makes it worse for me. If he was out of control and if she would have been all over the place then I might buy the accidental story. But the way I see it was that he was in control and gave her an unnecessary whack across her head, why I don't know.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

do you have a video of this??? Please?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGI2z...eature=related

[prudery]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Ummmm...does your screen go dark after he cracks her across the face? He almost immediately hits her twice more on the shoulder after the initial blow.

Sorry, I should have said not in the face ....

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by prudery

Sorry, I should have said not in the face ....

NP...I just don't get what he's still whacking her for...

[ninetoone]

It's been over a year, but I can tell you that Dominguez would have felt a lot more heat had the Scrappy T/Afleet Alex incident happenned in today's environment, especially if Alex had gone down, which I still don't know how or why he didn't.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Where did I say that?

However, and I have watched it many times, I'm not in the business of deciding intent and I dare anyone to tell me they are 100% sure it was intentional.

But, be that as it may, we are in an hysterical environment right now, and decisions made under these kinds of situations are usually rash and rarely the fairest possible. You need to ask yourself what his punishment would have been had this happened a year ago. Now, I understand that one could argue that perhaps that would have also been too lenient, but the speed with which this verdict was handed down, as well as the haste people had to rush to judgement, leads me to believe he isn't getting a fair shake.

You'll have to trust me on this, but I have absolutely zero tolerance for anyone who would be cruel to animals ( save some of the posters on the internet who deserve all the abuse they can get ), however I am just as resolute in my feelings that a rush to judgement during hysterical times is a recipe for error.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

It's been over a year, but I can tell you that Dominguez would have felt a lot more heat had the Scrappy T/Afleet Alex incident happenned in today's environment, especially if Alex had gone down, which I still don't know how or why he didn't.

That's a terrific point, had the mare's eye had not been hemmoraged. I doubt there would be any controversy at all.

[mbahadur]

Below is Dan Illman's take on the incident in his DRF blog yesterday:

I've been following Delaware this meet, and this isn't the first time that Rose's actions have come into question. On May 12, I was co-hosting the New York City OTB program with Peter Rotundo, and we noticed Rose tearing the hide off runner-up Chief Export with 100 yards to go, and no hope of winning the race. If you go to calracing.com (free registration), and load up the May 12 race at Delaware, you'll see what I mean. Chief Export is breaking from post two, and is program number three. He breaks slowly, and rushes into a tight spot on the inside turning for home. After checking and angling to the outside, he fails to run down win-machine Spooky Mulder. Rose has no chance to win in late stretch, but still gives Chief Export a good beating on his shoulder. After the race, we called for his head on live TV, and in the wake of the Eight Belles incident, wondered how in the heck Rose could be allowed to ride in the Preakness later that week. I can understand his frustration over the bad trip, but the horse didn't deserve the hiding. I think the lengthy suspension is justified in that it sends out a message that the whole world is scrutinizing our sport, and that animal abuse will not be tolerated.

[Indian Charlie]

Dude, I just watched the Chief Export 'incident'.

Clearly that was accidental, as if you look real closely, you can see he was swatting at a gnat that was bothering the horse. The shoulder, unfortunately, just got in the way.

In retrospect, it was actually the horse that was to blame.

[ArlJim78]

I am 100% sure that he cracked that horse in the face 2-3 times.
you can debate what his intention was or what the punishment should be all you want, but what happened cannot be debated. In my opinion he doesn't belong around thoroughbreds.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by mbahadur

Below is Dan Illman's take on the incident in his DRF blog yesterday:

I've been following Delaware this meet, and this isn't the first time that Rose's actions have come into question. On May 12, I was co-hosting the New York City OTB program with Peter Rotundo, and we noticed Rose tearing the hide off runner-up Chief Export with 100 yards to go, and no hope of winning the race. If you go to calracing.com (free registration), and load up the May 12 race at Delaware, you'll see what I mean. Chief Export is breaking from post two, and is program number three. He breaks slowly, and rushes into a tight spot on the inside turning for home. After checking and angling to the outside, he fails to run down win-machine Spooky Mulder. Rose has no chance to win in late stretch, but still gives Chief Export a good beating on his shoulder. After the race, we called for his head on live TV, and in the wake of the Eight Belles incident, wondered how in the heck Rose could be allowed to ride in the Preakness later that week. I can understand his frustration over the bad trip, but the horse didn't deserve the hiding. I think the lengthy suspension is justified in that it sends out a message that the whole world is scrutinizing our sport, and that animal abuse will not be tolerated.

Well that video isn't going to help him out in the public eye, that's for sure. It's Delaware Park, 5/12, Race #4. Nearly an identical situation, except Chief Export escaped without nearly losing an eye. Frustrated by his trip on Chief Export, he hammers home 2 lashes real late for no good reason what-so-ever. Frustrated by his trip on Appeal to the City, you know the rest...

Mr. Rose, you are a jackass.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Well that video isn't going to help him out in the public eye, that's for sure. It's Delaware Park, 5/12, Race #4. Nearly an identical situation, except Chief Export escaped without nearly losing an eye. Frustrated by his trip on Chief Export, he hammers home 2 lashes real late for no good reason what-so-ever. Frustrated by his trip on Appeal to the City, you know the rest...

Mr. Rose, you are a jackass.

Agreed.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

He violated the terms of a 60 day suspension (down from an original 120 days), and they only gave him 14 days, which he then used to take a vacation with Frankel in Brazil. He essentially laughed at them.

And Contessa defended him on ATR.