Cap and Trade vote on Friday

[Antitrust32]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

He isn't brilliant that's for sure. People are catching on, some just have to be hit over the head repeatedly before it sinks in.

QUOTE]

You supported bush...and we are supposed to respect your ability to judge intelligence in a president?

Somehow, this all makes sense.

What are your thoughts on Obama? He makes Bush spending look like pennies... and Bush was horrible in that department.

Honestly I think Obama has been very scary these past 6 months. He's trying to rush through policies that senators dont even read and that will drastically change this country and add government into places they shouldnt be. His push for health care reform before the august recess is extremely frightening... even the congress dems are frightened.

He's turing in to Mr. Pelosi.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL. we cant blame our problems on tracks or loose shoes.

Or Jockeys...but you can get bailed out

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or Jockeys...but you can get bailed out

****. We turned the bailout money down. People that bitch about the taxpayer getting screwed on those little deals should look at the terms on those little deals. The taxpayer is hardly getting screwed when the banks take tarp funds.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You supported bush...and we are supposed to respect your ability to judge intelligence in a president?

Somehow, this all makes sense.

what is intelligence? does it have anything to do with making the right decisions, or governing wisely? if not how important is it for the president?

as we spiral down the toilet, I guess people like you will be grinning all the way somehow convinced that we were better off because in some way Obama was more intelligent than Bush.

whatever intelligence Obama has its overshadowed by his attachment to bad ideas and his narcissistic personality disorder.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what is intelligence? does it have anything to do with making the right decisions, or governing wisely? if not how important is it for the president?

as we spiral down the toilet, I guess people like you will be grinning all the way somehow convinced that we were better off because in some way Obama was more intelligent than Bush.

whatever intelligence Obama has its overshadowed by his attachment to bad ideas and his narcissistic personality disorder.

you used the term "brilliant". I am taking that you meant that in regards to native intelligence. Obviously, Obama has more native intelligence than Bush.

Govern wisely? Are you joking? Bush governed wisely enough to get Obama elected in the first place.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is poor logic. People dont vote for the entire govt, just their own jurisdiction. The party in power is supposed to be representing the entire citizenship of the country and when bills are passed that dont have a single vote from the opposition party they most certainly are ignoring a large segment of that citizenship. Implying that people are "whining" when major and far reaching legislation is passed time and time again on strict party lines shows a distinct partisanship in itself. Knocking Bush or the GOP doesnt make what the Democrats are doing right or healthy for the country. Labeling the GOP obstructionists when they dont roll over is shows a certain amount of ignorance. The party in charge has the responsibility to reachout in a bipartisan manner, not the minority. Duh!

yes, people vote for their own jurisdication for local elections-but i'd imagine most dems vote their party, as do most reps. some of us vote according to who's running, not just what party they belong to. in that regard, you would have people seeking some bi-partisanship. my point isn't that voters want it-they obviously do not. they want their party in power, so obviously many citizens are as uninterested in bi-partisanship as most pols.

i do agree tho that it shouldn't be called whining by either side towards the other-both sides engage in the same types of behavior. right now it's the right complaining. in a few years it may be the left again-just like it was just a couple years ago. that was back when many said the democratic party was doa, just like what is being said now about republicans.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

What are your thoughts on Obama? He makes Bush spending look like pennies... and Bush was horrible in that department.

Honestly I think Obama has been very scary these past 6 months. He's trying to rush through policies that senators dont even read and that will drastically change this country and add government into places they shouldnt be. His push for health care reform before the august recess is extremely frightening... even the congress dems are frightened.

He's turing in to Mr. Pelosi.

well I thought I had made my position on Obama clear from all of my posts during the campaign and after, but let me clarify. He's a horrible and dangerous president, the worst ever. he knows nothing about what he is doing and to top it off it's clear he despises capitalism and most of the things about Americas history that most of us are proud of. After all he promised to radically change America, people took that statement the wrong way. They assumed he meant that he was proud of America and wanted to fix the things that were broken. In fact he was not proud of America and wants to change the principles it has always stood for in order to conform to his worldview.
you cannot distinguish between Obamas actions and a person who is hellbent on destroying our economy. to me the jury is still out on whether this is due to ineptitude or by design.
To top things off he surrounds himself with Chicago thugs and thinks he's above the law because after all he's the messiah.

on the bright side, since he has been so arrogant and made so many mistakes so fast and overplayed his hand so quickly, he'll be a one term president and for the second half of his first term he'll have a Republican house to keep him in check.

A politician is nothing more than a public servant with extraordinary bulls.hitting skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg3SIUEUt30

The fact of the matter is that there are some kids who are better off not having a father around.

Quick! Get a mirror for the President!!!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

you used the term "brilliant". I am taking that you meant that in regards to native intelligence. Obviously, Obama has more native intelligence than Bush.

Govern wisely? Are you joking? Bush governed wisely enough to get Obama elected in the first place.

I would agree about the native intelligence or whatever. I don't think anyone would dispute that he has that over Bush. I'm just asking is that the final metric to be used? is that all? many of the most horrible tyrants in history have been very intelligent. so I think we can all agree that intelligence alone is not the best tool for comparing presidents.

not a big defender of bush here, but there were many factors at play that got Obama elected. one of the biggest is that as a nation we knew nothing about Obama except the fairytale that was offered up by the media and because Obama disguised his true self.

that mask has slipped badly and people are getting a peek behind the curtain now.

[joeydb]

Wouldn't it be funny if Bush's IQ is actually higher than Obama's? Has anybody found the numbers yet?

You guys might find this interesting...

http://www.enterstageright.com/archi...ctingmoron.htm

Electing a moron

By Alan Caruba
web posted July 13, 2009

It's not that long ago that former President George W. Bush was being characterized as a dimwit. In truth, because he was not a smooth talker, he often came across as less than a deep thinker. I am not sure the job requires a deep thinker because those who fit that description often turned out to be a disaster. The job's best description is "leader."

It is important to remember that the decade in which Bush served was one of consumer confidence, a healthy economy, marred initially by 9/11 and later by the decision to invade Iraq and depose a vicious despot who had warred with Iran and invaded Kuwait. Many Americans grew tired of the war and the subsequent occupation.

Only at the very end of Bush's term, September 2008, did the nation suddenly encounter the financial turmoil that the mortgage "bubble" generated. It was long in coming and fearful in its immediate consequences. Congress voted a $700 billion bailout program for banks and insurance companies.

Candidate Obama had almost nothing to say about the crisis, but all during the campaign the mainstream media kept telling us that he had a giant IQ. He had already written two books even if both were about himself.

And, yes, he had taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago, but few on the faculty have any recall of him. Indeed, his college transcripts, as well as his birth certificate, are all still carefully hidden from public view.

So we have only the last six months by which to judge him by his actions. A delightful blog by Theo Sparks has posted two lists demonstrating that just over half the voters in 2008 elected a moron.

So far on Obama's watch:

He has doubled the national debt.

Announced the termination of the space defense system the day after the North Koreans launched an ICBM.

Against the advice and urgings for his own CIA director and the prior four directors, he released information on intelligence gathering.

Announced that he would close Guantanamo without having any idea what to do with its detainees, all of whom are hard-core jihadists; several of those released have since returned to the terrorist trade.

Spent a lot of time in foreign nations apologizing for things about which most Americans take pride.

Told Mexicans that the violence in their country was our fault because some of the guns they use to kill each other had been purchased in the U.S.

Appointed an Attorney General who orchestrated the forced removal and return to Cuba of a nine-year-old whose mother died to give him a life of freedom in America.

Caused panic in New York by authorizing the flight of Air Force One over New York for a photo you can purchase with Photo Shop for less than a dollar. The flight cost $400.000.

Told the Iranian protesters in the streets of Tehran that the U.S. would not "meddle" in the affairs of their nation, but did not hesitate to tell the Prime Minister of Israel that his nation had to stop building new settlements to house its growing population.

Initiated the nationalization of the U.S. auto industry and gave a lot of money to insurance giant AIG without any pre-conditions.

Intends to nationalize the health insurance industry.

Is pushing a Cap-and-Trade bill that would be the largest tax in the history of the nation.

When the Honduran Supreme Court deposed a communist president, he sided, along with Cuba's Raul Castro and Venezuela's Huge Chavez, with the exiled president.

President Obama, a former community organizer, claimed through a spokesperson that he was unaware of the initial nationwide "tea party" tax protests involving thousands. On July 4, an estimated million Americans participated in more protests coast to coast.

Among his choice of friends, he was unaware that he started his political career in the living room of a former domestic terrorist, a member of the Weather Underground.

He was unaware that the pastor of the church he attended for twenty years was a racist who hates America.

He was unaware that his own aunt was living in the U.S. illegally or that his brother lives on pennies a day in a hut in Kenya.

Among his first choices for cabinet positions, he was unaware that he nominated a man to be Secretary of Commerce who was under investigation in a bribery scandal.

He was unaware that his choice for Secretary of Treasury was a tax cheat. Indeed, he was unaware that several of his top choices fit that description.

As President and the representative of the American people, he managed to offend the Queen of England, insult the British people by returning a bust of Winston Churchill, and make a deep bow to the King of Saudi Arabia, something no President in history has ever done before any monarch.

It is evident to all that President Obama is (a) incapable of delivering any kind of speech without the use of a TelePrompter and (b) incapable of answering any question from a member of the press in under ten minutes' time.

So what do we know about the people who voted for him? According the Rasmussen Consumer Index, among Democrats confidence is up from 53.7 a year ago to 79.5 this year. Among Republicans, it has dropped from 99.4 last year to 68.6 today,

Democrats apparently think the economy has improved despite the loss of more than 2.5 million jobs in the first quarter of 2009. Under Obama, the U.S. unemployment rate has risen from 7.6 to 9.5%, the highest in 26 years.

To put it another way, the U.S. has lost 16,000 jobs each day since Democrats passed a multi-billion dollar "stimulus" bill. The nation's Gross Domestic Product fell at 5.5 percent in the first quarter of 2009.

The stock market is down 3,000 points from a year ago.

This means that Democrats, voters and members of Congress, are either deluded and/or as moronic as the man they elected President.

The only justification for the debacle the President has offered thus far has been to blame everything on George W. Bush.

Meanwhile, his Vice President is candidly telling anyone who will listen that the geniuses Obama selected to advise him are clueless, having failed to grasp the gravity of the situation or offer solutions other than those that will put more people out of work, raise taxes, increase inflation, and further bankrupt a bankrupt nation.

How do I know it's bankrupt? Because President Obama is on record saying, "We're out of money."

When you're in a hole, stop digging.

Unless, of course, you're a moron.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I would agree about the native intelligence or whatever. I don't think anyone would dispute that he has that over Bush. I'm just asking is that the final metric to be used? is that all? many of the most horrible tyrants in history have been very intelligent. so I think we can all agree that intelligence alone is not the best tool for comparing presidents.

not a big defender of bush here, but there were many factors at play that got Obama elected. one of the biggest is that as a nation we knew nothing about Obama except the fairytale that was offered up by the media and because Obama disguised his true self.

that mask has slipped badly and people are getting a peek behind the curtain now.

I agree with you about the intelligence part. People dismiss Carter all of the time and by all acounts he is a brilliant man. Certainly native intelligence is not the only predicator for being an effective president.

Obama walked into a **** storm. There wasn't a lot of time to do anything. Its way early to judge anything. If you get surgery, you cant judge a doctor's performance midway through the operation or even immediately after is done.

They all disguise themselves and i dont see why obama was supposed to be any different. Was he suddenly supposed to become a Reagan conservative so he wouldnt take shots about being partisan? Guys like you werent going to like him either way.

The economic policies that Obama is embracing arent much of a departure from the previous admin's in the latter stages.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Wouldn't it be funny if Bush's IQ is actually higher than Obama's? Has anybody found the numbers yet?

You guys might find this interesting...

http://www.enterstageright.com/archi...ctingmoron.htm

Electing a moron

.

Just a hunch, but i would bet Obama has a higher iq than bush and the person who wrote that piece...combined. A matter of fact, you could probably throw in the IQ's of the three people that actually read that blog and Obama would be ahead.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

well I thought I had made my position on Obama clear from all of my posts during the campaign and after, but let me clarify. He's a horrible and dangerous president, the worst ever. he knows nothing about what he is doing and to top it off it's clear he despises capitalism and most of the things about Americas history that most of us are proud of. After all he promised to radically change America, people took that statement the wrong way. They assumed he meant that he was proud of America and wanted to fix the things that were broken. In fact he was not proud of America and wants to change the principles it has always stood for in order to conform to his worldview.
you cannot distinguish between Obamas actions and a person who is hellbent on destroying our economy. to me the jury is still out on whether this is due to ineptitude or by design.
To top things off he surrounds himself with Chicago thugs and thinks he's above the law because after all he's the messiah.

on the bright side, since he has been so arrogant and made so many mistakes so fast and overplayed his hand so quickly, he'll be a one term president and for the second half of his first term he'll have a Republican house to keep him in check.

I thought I had quoted Dala sorry.. the quote thing on here gets messed up from time to tim.

How bout u Dala?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

you used the term "brilliant". I am taking that you meant that in regards to native intelligence. Obviously, Obama has more native intelligence than Bush.

Govern wisely? Are you joking? Bush governed wisely enough to get Obama elected in the first place.

Thats kinda racist

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Just a hunch, but i would bet Obama has a higher iq than bush and the person who wrote that piece...combined. A matter of fact, you could probably throw in the IQ's of the three people that actually read that blog and Obama would be ahead.

Some unbiased source out there has to have the actual numbers. Granted, a couple of points in either direction is nothing, and IQ is an attempt to objectify a rather subjective thing: intelligence. Maybe Mensa has it.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I thought I had quoted Dala sorry.. the quote thing on here gets messed up from time to tim.

How bout u Dala?

Fair question. Some of the spending he really has no choice on and neither did Bush in the latter stages. I never criticized Bush for his spending in the latter months...only the stuff for the first seven years while he sat on his hands and let the credit crunch ferment. Obama has to attack our economic issues and the great depression showed that hoarding money and balancing the budget is NOT the thing to do during a deep recession. Credit freezes require liquidity and the govenment needs to provide said liquidity when the market can't unlock on its own. All of these wanna be "true capitalists" were crying to mama fed not too long ago. True capitalism relies on markets to "take care of themselves" and this last crisis proved once again that that cant happen. I am a capitalist to the core but I do appreciate the need for regulation and at times assistance from the federal government.

Now is tackling health care the best idea for the times? I think that he is biting off more than he can chew right now and i think regardless of the future impact of rising health care costs (i agree it is a serious concern) now is not the time. Our sole focus should be on stablizing the economy and defending the country and i dont think debt should be a concern in dealing with either right now.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Thats kinda racist

Thats two in one day. I laughed twice!

I picture obama saying "who you callin native"?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Some unbiased source out there has to have the actual numbers. Granted, a couple of points in either direction is nothing, and IQ is an attempt to objectify a rather subjective thing: intelligence. Maybe Mensa has it.

I agree. At the same time, if Arljim78 concedes Obama is smarter, there pretty much isnt much of a question.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

They all disguise themselves and i dont see why obama was supposed to be any different. Was he suddenly supposed to become a Reagan conservative so he wouldnt take shots about being partisan? Guys like you werent going to like him either way.

The economic policies that Obama is embracing arent much of a departure from the previous admin's in the latter stages.

Because he ran as the champion of change which would be different? He doesnt have to become a conservative to become more bipartisan, just has to be in charge of his party which is led by radicals, who are dictating the agenda. No one saying that we would like him or vote for him. But he comes across as a phony when he reversed course so quickly on so many important issues. If he attempted to reach across and compromise at least he could say he tried. However they (Obama aint alone) keep trying to jam things through while changing the rules (like the jobs created bs). There isnt really much of a defense for him other than Bush sucks because you know that he is a typical radical liberal who tricked moderates into believing that he is one of them.

Not to mention that if Obama is doing much the same as Bush on the economy then he better stop blaming him for it .

[Cannon Shell]

From Obama's speech on June 29th

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_...ent-on-Energy/

In the late 1970s, the state of California enacted tougher energy-efficiency policies. Over the next three decades, those policies helped create almost 1.5 million jobs. And today, Californians consume 40 percent less energy per person than the national average -- which, over time, has prevented the need to build at least 24 new power plants. Think about that. California -- producing jobs, their economy keeping pace with the rest of the country, and yet they have been able to maintain their energy usage at a much lower level than the rest of the country.

The same CA with the rolling blackouts. The same CA in a 40 billion dollar hole and facing 11.65% unemployment. And Bush was a dummy?